July 11, 2025

The Laredo Texas Serial Killer

The Laredo Texas Serial Killer
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player iconOvercast podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconiHeartRadio podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconPodchaser podcast player iconDeezer podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconTuneIn podcast player icon

In the fall of 2018, terror struck the normally relatively safe city of Laredo, TX. Two women were found dead in a span of less than 2 weeks, by the time it was over, it was a lot worse. People wondered, "how could someone in law enforcement do this". In this episode, Cristina tells Carmen about this 2018 case, where four women were senselessly murderded.

If you have a spooky story to share, email Espookytales@gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at the Espooky Hot Line (360)836-4486. You can also submit it on Discord!

Join the Espooky Tales Book Club for Busy People: https://substack.com/@espooky?utm_source=profile-page

Listen to Carmen and Cristina's other podcast Historias Unknown

The book club read is the Bochica by Carolina Flórez-Cerchiaro , if you want to purchase the book, check out our bookshop link https://bookshop.org/lists/espooky-book-club-list

For more spooky stories, check out the Tiktok! https://www.tiktok.com/@espookytales

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/espookytales/

Chat with us on Discord! https://discord.gg/cWk7CvVgaR

Want to be a Patron? Get episodes AD-FREE, listen before they are released to anyone else, get bonus episodes, exclusive stickers, virtual hangouts, and more! Support Espooky Tales. Learn more by visiting https://www.patreon.com/Espookytales

By joining, you can help Espooky Tales donate 20% funds to charity. This month's donation went to CLEAN, carwash worker center, an org thata has been helping car wash workers who are unable to leave their homes due to increeaing ICE raids in LA country, by providing groceries to over 200 car wash workers. Follow @carwasherxs on instagram

Get Espooky Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/espooky-tales/

Find us on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@espookytales

WEBVTT

1
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.800
Hi, this is Christina and Carmen, and this is another

2
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.119
episode of a Spooky Tales, the podcast for all Things Hunted,

3
00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.839
a spooky true crime in Latin America. And today it

4
00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:21.719
is just true crime and it's very depressing and angering.

5
00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:25.079
That's just that's been the mood. Yeah, it's my fault,

6
00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:27.399
and yeah, that's what we have today.

7
00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:32.679
No panorma. Sorry, that's the mood in general. Yes, and

8
00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:33.159
yeah didn't.

9
00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:34.759
We don't have a listener story today because we're just

10
00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:38.039
gonna do the true crime case. But we still are

11
00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.119
receiving them always. So if you have a story that

12
00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:41.920
you want to send us, you can email as Spooky

13
00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:43.920
Tales at gmail dot com. You can dm us on

14
00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:47.200
any of our socials. You can submit it on Discord.

15
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.840
You can dma on any of our socials like Instagram,

16
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.960
even TikTok. You can call the Spooky hotline.

17
00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:54.840
All are cool.

18
00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.679
We love receiving them. Okay, and yeah again we're just

19
00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:00.600
gonna jump straight into my depressing case.

20
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:00.920
Again.

21
00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:05.799
It's very infuriating and depressing. I can't stress that enough.

22
00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:12.200
So I am sharing a case where the murderer, the

23
00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:16.359
perpetrator is a former Border Patrol agent.

24
00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.680
Oh that one. Mm hmm. Yeah.

25
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.719
When this happened, people asked, how could this happen? How

26
00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.159
could someone who is supposed to protect us become a

27
00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:31.760
monster and high defect. I would like to remind people

28
00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:34.760
that that's not the purpose of border patrol. Yeah, yeah,

29
00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:38.319
they are often the perpetators of violence. So to me,

30
00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:40.680
when I learned that it was a bored patrol agent

31
00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:41.719
that there is, it.

32
00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:42.439
Was no surprise.

33
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.319
You were like, okay, makes sense. Yeah, I'm like shocking

34
00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.799
at all, the least shocked, like I could ever be.

35
00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:51.760
Yeah, but I get it.

36
00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.879
Not everyone's there yet, so yeah, anyway, the case. So,

37
00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.319
in the follow of twenty eighteen, terror struck the normally

38
00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:05.159
relative safe city of Laredo, Texas, compared to its Mexican counterpart,

39
00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:11.240
Nuevo Laredo, Latto is pretty safe. Laredo, not Nova Lao,

40
00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:14.599
is often included in the top ten safest cities in Texas.

41
00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.439
To me, Larelo seems like one of those places you

42
00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.439
only go if you're from there. It's not like a destination,

43
00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:23.680
like or you're yeah, yeah, yeah, you're there because you

44
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.039
already live there and like you're not visiting or you

45
00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.960
have family there. That would be the only reason you're visiting. Yeah,

46
00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:31.400
it's not like I don't know Austin or San Antonio,

47
00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.280
but like I've only ever been to San Antonio. I

48
00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:37.240
can't like I haven't been to Texas, but if I went,

49
00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.439
I would probably go, Like I don't know like San Antonio,

50
00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:46.520
I don't know Houston unless we're visiting family. Yeah, Laredo

51
00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.960
is right next to Mexico along the Rio Grande, with

52
00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.520
the population of more than two hundred and sixty thousand.

53
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.120
Going by crime rates alone, it's way safer than Dallas

54
00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:02.080
and Houston. So when four women were found dead in

55
00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:06.680
a span of two weeks, people were terrified. And then

56
00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:11.319
when connections between the murders were made.

57
00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:12.520
That's her grew.

58
00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:17.360
Where the connections between the murders. Yeah, okay, what did

59
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:20.520
they say? No, I'm just repeating because I thought you

60
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.360
said murderers and I was like what, oh no, no, Yeah,

61
00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:27.759
because two of them were found in the same general area,

62
00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:29.919
like literally so close to each other. Yeah, I was

63
00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:33.719
giving serial killer. Yes, yes, they were found in the

64
00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:38.080
rural roads outside of Lareedo. And these women were all

65
00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.719
known sex workers, all working in the same road San Bernardo,

66
00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:47.479
And this is Laredo's main road, and unlike other places,

67
00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.319
the sex industry here was not somewhere hidden away. Literally

68
00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.280
on the main road, everyone knew where it was. Blocks

69
00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.319
away from the high school, sex workers lined the main

70
00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.719
street out in the open. They were all mostly local

71
00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:04.719
and very close knit, and one of these close knit

72
00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:11.080
groups of friends was Melisaramirez, Janelle Ortiz and Claudine Luerra.

73
00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.639
They would sit together on an orange bench and chat

74
00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.040
between clients. They ate at the local takeia together. They

75
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:21.519
shared clothes and the costs of motel rooms, and all

76
00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:29.399
three were very well known in the community. Melisar Ramirez

77
00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.920
was twenty nine, but she still had like this motherly

78
00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.839
role within the community. She had been working in San

79
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:40.920
Bernardo for almost ten years, and she grew up in

80
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.160
Rio Bravo, a low income community thirteen miles south of Ladedo,

81
00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:48.079
and she lived there with her mom, Cristina ba Navidez,

82
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:50.800
and two of her kids, who were seven and three

83
00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.120
when all this was taking place twenty eighteen. It was

84
00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:57.800
a humble home with kids toy scattered around the yard

85
00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.920
of a mobile home, and Melissa was the third oldest

86
00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.839
of four siblings and as a kid she loved playing

87
00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:09.959
Mexican music on the accordion, which cool, very cool. She

88
00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.759
memorized all the lyrics of all of Selena's most famous songs,

89
00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.720
and since childhood she was known for her compassion. She

90
00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.439
was a really good student, but all of this changed

91
00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.120
when she was sexually assaulted by the uncle of one

92
00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.079
of her friends. Oh no, this was during high school

93
00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:29.360
and life became very difficult for her. After this, she

94
00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:32.480
turned to xanax to cope, dropped out of high school,

95
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.759
then began using other drugs. By the time she became

96
00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.600
a mother who struggles with addiction were worse and you know,

97
00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.199
like everyone trying to get better, she would swear off drugs,

98
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:49.360
be home with her kids and her mom, but it

99
00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.720
was difficult. It's a very difficult thing to do, and

100
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.040
so then she would leave her kids again with her

101
00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.240
mom and take the bus to downtown Laedo and work

102
00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.600
the streets. And then she would be gone for a

103
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.920
few days then return home again, and her mom and

104
00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:08.519
kids were always waiting for her back home. Whenever she

105
00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:12.600
would get there, Christina would cook Melissa's favorite meal for her.

106
00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:17.560
She always called her Miniamosa ever since she was a baby,

107
00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:22.920
and so when Melissa left on September tewod. Christina expected

108
00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:26.800
her back in a few days, like always, but this

109
00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:31.240
time it was different. Two detectives and two Texas Rangers

110
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.959
were at her doorstep and they brought the worst news

111
00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.839
of Christina's life with them. Melissa had been found dead

112
00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.519
on a small access road twenty miles outside of Laedon.

113
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:44.839
It was around noon on.

114
00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:48.560
The third September third when the Webb County Sheriff Department

115
00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:52.000
received a call from a rancher who had discovered a

116
00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:53.839
woman on the side of a dirt road.

117
00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:55.399
She had been.

118
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.319
Lying face down. She was shot three times in the

119
00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:02.040
head and once in her right art, and she had

120
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.279
been clutching a bag of M and ms when she

121
00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:08.879
was killed. Next to her there were forty caliber bullet

122
00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.519
casings and so to the police, this meant she had

123
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.920
been shot execution style like at point blank range. And

124
00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.800
at the morgue, she was quickly identified as Melissa Ramidez.

125
00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.399
They used fingerprints, which then resulted in a two thousand

126
00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:27.160
and eight arrests for prostitution that she was in the system,

127
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.519
and that's how they found out so quickly who it was,

128
00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.360
and the investigation started slow efforts with false leads. Christina

129
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.879
remembered that Melissa had mentioned a man in a black truck,

130
00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.199
but after finding out who this man was, he was

131
00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:44.879
cleared completely like he had nothing to do with it.

132
00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.879
But unfortunately, rumors of a black truck spread among the

133
00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.560
women on San Bernardo and they were all warning each

134
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.560
other to avoid a black truck, which again was a

135
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:59.360
false rumor or false lead, And surveillance of the site

136
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.439
showed that a police car had arrived before the assigned unit,

137
00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.319
or had arrived, like before the dispatch call sent a

138
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.399
police car, there was already an officer there, and so

139
00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.879
this police car on surveillance they could see that it

140
00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.000
drove down the road and it turned around right where

141
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.519
Melissa's body was, and so at first they were like, well,

142
00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.959
this is probably the murder, revisiting the murder scene. But no,

143
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.680
after investigating, this was not the case. It was just

144
00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.399
a police officer who had been driving down the road

145
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.439
to look at property he was going to buy.

146
00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:34.120
Oh that's what I thought at first, Yeah, it is.

147
00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.639
It seemed like that, and so I did leave. I guess,

148
00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:39.399
why would you want to stay there if you're not working.

149
00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.240
It's like, yeah, well, normally I think he would have

150
00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:45.240
to call it in, but he wasn't working yet. He

151
00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.399
was just in his car, probably like dropping his daughter

152
00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:49.519
off at school, and on the way there he stopped

153
00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.240
to look at this property. I'm not sure, but his

154
00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.399
daughter was in the car with oh, and he didn't

155
00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:57.320
want her to see, of course, so he turned around quickly.

156
00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.120
And so this at first made people think, oh, I

157
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.759
got it's a police officer. And they were like, you know,

158
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.039
just chasing these false leads, which again is always like,

159
00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.639
it's part of it, part of the investigation, but it

160
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.879
sucks when they waste so much time that could have

161
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:18.000
been you know, more fruitful. So the only leads they

162
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.799
had went nowhere. And because of the location of where

163
00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.000
she was found, Border Patrol was brought in to assist

164
00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:29.440
with the investigation because you know, this area along the

165
00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:33.759
border is heavily surveilled, like there if we live in

166
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.320
a state surveillance as a whole United States, that's a

167
00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:42.440
super state surveillance that they are under, yes, extreme, and

168
00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.480
you know, investigators knew that Border Patrol had automated cameras

169
00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.440
on a lot of these small access roads and they're

170
00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:52.000
going at all times, and so Border Patrol was asked

171
00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:55.240
to check license plates for any vehicles that were on

172
00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.559
that road at the time of the murder. And there

173
00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:03.279
was one Border Patrol in intelligence supervisor named Juanda Vidortis

174
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.720
who led his team through these checks and he and

175
00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.320
his team cleared every driver.

176
00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:09.480
Hmmmm.

177
00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:15.240
And so for ten days the investigation was stalled. Melissa's

178
00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:20.279
killer could be anyone at this point. Then on the

179
00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:25.360
morning of September thirteenth, ten days after, forty two year

180
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:30.679
old Claudine Luerra was found dead two miles from where

181
00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.320
Melissa Amidas had been discovered.

182
00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.000
Wow, And just like.

183
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.519
Melissa, Claudine had been shot multiple times in the head,

184
00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.320
execution style. And they found the same type of forty

185
00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:44.960
caliber bullet casings next to her too. And it was

186
00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.679
a big rick driver who found her and called nine

187
00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:51.720
one one. But unlike Melissa, Claudine was still alive.

188
00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.600
Oh. The driver spotted.

189
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.879
Her from where he was driving, pulled over, climbed down

190
00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.840
from his cab and checked on her and found her breathing.

191
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:03.960
And not only that, but she hadn't managed to crawl

192
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.799
from the grass like a hidden spot on the side

193
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.240
of the road, deep in the grass, she crawled all

194
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.399
the way to a visible spot on the road. That's

195
00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:14.480
how he was able to see her. But at this

196
00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.200
point she had been fighting for her life for almost

197
00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:18.000
five hours.

198
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:18.639
Wow.

199
00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:23.039
She was transported to the hospital and she continued to

200
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.919
live until that afternoon where she died from her head injuries.

201
00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:29.519
But a long time.

202
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.559
Yeah, And at first, investigators tried to keep Claudine's murder quiet.

203
00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:36.919
They told the media that a woman died from head

204
00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:39.440
trauma at the hospital. They were like, yes, that happened,

205
00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.120
but they would say nothing else. But reporters found out

206
00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.039
how close together the women were found, and they connected

207
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.919
the two murders right away, and so news about a

208
00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:52.759
serial killer loose on the streets of Ladedo spread quickly.

209
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:56.559
And Claudie was one of Melissa's closest friends. But I'm

210
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.159
not clear if this was part of the news being

211
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.519
spread or that people just knew they were both sex

212
00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.879
workers that had been found two miles apart from each other.

213
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.759
But you know, it would seem the killer knew they

214
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:14.879
knew each other at least. And Claudine she grew up

215
00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:18.080
in Laedon. She attended the high school that is just

216
00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.159
a few blocks from San Bernardo. The streets, the street

217
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.960
that they all worked on, and she had a very

218
00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:27.320
rough childhood and she never shared what happened to her.

219
00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.919
But something that changed her life forever took place when

220
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:35.759
she was five, something traumatic, something that she has always

221
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:36.919
said took all good.

222
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.720
Away from her. Oh some terrible.

223
00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.919
Yeah, And she and her sister were known as Las

224
00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.799
Blanchitas in their childhood because they were I want to say,

225
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.080
half Polish, half Mexican. And for some time she did

226
00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.759
try to move past her trauma. She was working as

227
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.120
a clerk for the DA's office, but her struggle with

228
00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:59.799
drugs only got worse. In twenty fourteen. Her kids were

229
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.399
from her care and plays with her sister, but her kids,

230
00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.720
like the goal of her oldest daughter, was to graduate

231
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:12.000
as a nurse, have all their siblings buy a house, sorry,

232
00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.039
graduate as a nurse, buy a house, move all her siblings,

233
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.200
her aunt, and her mom in the same house. They

234
00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:21.720
just wanted to all be together, even even through the

235
00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:25.960
struggles of their mom. Which is it's beautiful because again

236
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.559
it is something that is so difficult for so many people. Yeah,

237
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:34.639
And like Melissa, Claudine always talked about getting better, and

238
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.879
just days before her own murder, the day Melissa was

239
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.360
found dead, Claudine went to her older kid at her

240
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.919
apartment and told her that she was scared and wanted

241
00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:47.679
to leave sex work for good because she was like,

242
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.840
I could be next. And she said she knew who

243
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:57.519
Melissa had been with last Oh, and Claudine's fears became true,

244
00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:02.240
but this wouldn't be discovered until the killer's confession. It

245
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.559
turned out that Claudine was trying to figure out what

246
00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.759
happened to her friend. She set her fear aside and

247
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.360
got into the killer's truck and began to ask questions.

248
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.000
There was a confrontation and then he ordered her at

249
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.879
gunpoint to get out of the truck and when she did,

250
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.039
he also got out behind her, and that's when he

251
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.600
killed her or not, that's when he shot her. And

252
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.480
again she died in the hospital a few hours. I mean,

253
00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.320
she wasn't able to share this information because of the

254
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.960
condition she was in. This was found out after he confessed. Yeah,

255
00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.360
it almost feels like she was trying to stay alive

256
00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:42.120
to try and share this information, but her injuries were

257
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:47.000
too severe. Yeah, when she died in the hospital just

258
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.399
a few hours after that, the killer was already picking

259
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:50.240
up his next target.

260
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:51.399
Wow.

261
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.080
On the evening of like he this was like so fast,

262
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.879
it's insane. It reminds me of in criminal minds when

263
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:02.240
like one person killed like someone and then they get

264
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.240
like the itch for it and then like it's a

265
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:05.399
kind of like spray killing.

266
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.440
Yeah. Yeah.

267
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.799
On the evening of September fourteenth, twenty seven year old

268
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.519
Erica Pena was walking San Bernardo. A white Dodge Ram

269
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:19.000
pulled up to pick her up, and she of course

270
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.759
heard what had happened to Melissa, just like the rest

271
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.840
of the women who were working that night, but she

272
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:24.679
needed the money.

273
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:25.639
Plus they had.

274
00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.639
All her to watch out for a black truck and

275
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:30.799
she knew the man driving. She knew that he was

276
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.120
some sort of law enforcement and he had picked her

277
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.159
up in the past. He was like a regular on

278
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.360
San Bernardo and when she got on it struck he

279
00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.679
was normal, talkative. He drove her down to his home

280
00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:43.559
and said his kids and wife are out of town

281
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.559
that weekend, because yes, he was married. Of course he

282
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.200
was course, of course, and they talked while she smoked

283
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.559
a cigarette. But then she asked him if he knew

284
00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.879
anything about her friend, Melissa Ramidez, and he started to

285
00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:00.440
act weird. He stopped smiling, he got all the offensive,

286
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:01.919
and he was like, why would you ask me about

287
00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.679
the murder? Why would I know anything about that? And

288
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.840
she thought it was an innocent enough question, like him

289
00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:10.120
being in some sort of law enforcement, he might know,

290
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.240
he might know something. But when he got defensive, she

291
00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.639
started to feel uneasy and scared, of course, and she

292
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.039
describes that he stood right behind her and she just

293
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.279
felt like he smelt like death or something like she

294
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:24.399
felt that and then.

295
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:25.120
She threw up.

296
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.720
She quickly, like she said. She played it off and

297
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.840
said like, oh, maybe it's because I didn't eat before,

298
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.679
like smoking my cigarette, and it just made my stomach like,

299
00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:36.879
you know, queasy. And so they got back in the

300
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:38.960
truck and went to the gas station so he could

301
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.240
just buy like a snack or something. And when he

302
00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.720
got back into the truck, she brought up Melissa again

303
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.799
because now she was like this is now she wanted

304
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.919
to like confirm if her suspicions were true. Yes, And

305
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.399
this time he reached into the side compartment on her side,

306
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:57.879
pulled out his gun and aimed it at her.

307
00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:58.720
Oh wow.

308
00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:00.960
But before he could do anything, she opened the door

309
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.720
so fast and she jumped out, and he reached out

310
00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:06.400
and ripped her shirt off, like trying to pull her

311
00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.240
back in, but she fell into the sidewalk, got up,

312
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.759
she sprinted across the gas station, where there happened to

313
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.799
be another police officer, and she was screaming at the

314
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:16.960
top of her lungs, at the top of her lungs,

315
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:19.440
that he was going to kill her. But by the

316
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.200
time she reached this officer, the man in the truck

317
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.880
was gone. But this officer was well aware of the

318
00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:31.440
recent killings and thought this was related, and so he

319
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.440
took Eddie got to the Webb County Sheriff station where

320
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.960
investigators interviewed her, and she told them everything that had happened,

321
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:44.039
and that the man was a Border Patrol agent named David,

322
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:49.759
and normally she was terrible at directions and addresses, like

323
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:51.240
even her family made fun of her, and so that

324
00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:52.799
she wouldn't be able to get to her own house

325
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.279
from like the corner store. Sounds like someone I know

326
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.200
both of us, Yeah, yeah, I was going to say,

327
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.440
actually two people I know, two people that share one

328
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.920
brain cell, yes, yeah, yeah, But this time, no, this

329
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:10.079
time she remembered his address. Wow, And so investigators searched

330
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:12.119
that up. They got a hit and they found that

331
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.680
it belonged to Juan David Orthiz, the very same intelligence

332
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:23.240
officer who had been assisting the murdered investigation. Shocking why

333
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.599
they kept getting nowhere? Yeah, shocking Why none of the

334
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:32.880
cars were matching because he lied. Yeah. And by the

335
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.519
time they arrived at his house, he was gone.

336
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:36.119
Yeah.

337
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.359
By the time they had this information, got a warrant,

338
00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.920
then were able to go to his house. Yeah, he

339
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.319
was gone. It was now after midnight on the fifteenth,

340
00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:46.640
and you know, they had a warrant, so they were

341
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.240
able to go inside the house and they found twelve weapons,

342
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.359
including rifles, pistols, and a shotgun. They put out a

343
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.240
bolo with the description of his truck and of him.

344
00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.920
But just before the bolo went out, he was already

345
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:04.319
picking up his next victim. Damn, you can't even chill

346
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.039
for one night.

347
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:06.240
No.

348
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.799
And so this was Grisel la Cantou, who went by

349
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:16.200
Celli and Celli mostly kept to herself. She carried all

350
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:18.079
of her things in a bag and she would be

351
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.559
seen packing and repacking this same bag in between clients.

352
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.960
And maybe because she was so quiet and kept to herself,

353
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:31.559
she wasn't aware of fully what was going on or

354
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.440
the danger she was in when she got into the

355
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.119
men's truck, But she got into his truck. And again,

356
00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.359
they're all here because they needed the money. They need

357
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.200
to keep working, so even when there's a dangerous case

358
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.000
like this, they can't stop working. So yeah, she got

359
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.480
into his truck because you know, she had to. And

360
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.920
so he spent twenty miles north on Interstate thirty five,

361
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.039
where he demanded her to get out of the truck

362
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.279
and then he shut her in the neck twice and

363
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.839
then he still hit her over the head with the

364
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.640
an object, like, oh my gosh, that wasn't enough. Why,

365
00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:04.640
like what is the reason?

366
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:05.960
Right?

367
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.519
So then he got back into his truck and sped,

368
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.519
and he must have been speeding because like they're already

369
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:16.359
looking for him. Yeah, but he sped back to San Bernardo,

370
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:20.480
using back roads to avoid the very like where they

371
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.759
were doing searches already on the main main roads. And

372
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.720
so then he pulled up next to two women and

373
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.079
he asked if one of them would be his date,

374
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:34.000
and twenty eight year old Janelle Ortiz agreed because she

375
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.960
had been sleeping under a bridge lately and she really

376
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.400
needed the money, and I mean they needed to feed

377
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:44.880
themselves and to eat. That's going to outweigh the safety

378
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:47.279
issues of what's going on right now, like that's always

379
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:49.359
going to well, and everything was happening so quickly they

380
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.839
might not be up to date on the information. Plus

381
00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.400
they had last heard to keep away from a black truck,

382
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.319
like you had said earlier. So yeah that too. So yeah,

383
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.200
she got in his truck. But just a few days before,

384
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.599
her santam Merta figure that she always carried around had

385
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.640
snapped at the head, and she took this as a

386
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.960
sign that something bad was going to hold to her.

387
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.160
She had been a devout Santa Morta follower since her transition,

388
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.599
and to her this was an omen So she got

389
00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:26.079
in his truck and he again drove down inners thirty five,

390
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.680
and just like everyone else, he ordered her to get

391
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:31.640
out of the truck and shot her in the back

392
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.960
of the head. And her last words were, if we're.

393
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.519
Going to do it, then do it. Wow.

394
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.920
And then the man did just as he had before,

395
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.480
He got in his truck and sped back into town,

396
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:48.240
probably trying to find someone else to dam It's absolutely wild.

397
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:49.359
Yeah.

398
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.759
By now it was one am. On the sixteenth and Highway.

399
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.480
Patrol troopers had driven past a Valero gas station where

400
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.759
they saw a white Dodge Ram truck in the parking

401
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.839
lot and it matched the BOLO that had been sent

402
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.200
out earlier, and the truck was unattended, so they went

403
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.759
to look inside the truck and they saw the forty

404
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:14.759
caliber pistol, which matched the previous scenes crime scenes, and

405
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.279
so the officers headed into the gas station tasers drawn

406
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:23.559
to apprehend him, but he saw them and he fled

407
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.359
on foot through the side door down San Bernardo Avenue

408
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.480
and he ran until he got to Hotel Eva, where

409
00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:33.279
then he just tried to hide behind cards in the

410
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.000
parking lot, but he was surrounded. And by now this

411
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.680
was all being live streamed by a woman who went

412
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:45.720
by La Gorliloca Oh wow, Brisila via real who this

413
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.720
is what she did. She had a Facebook page with

414
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.680
over one hundred thousand followers, and she filmed and broadcasted

415
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.240
these kinds of things like that was her job. And

416
00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:56.759
so she was at the scene already. And I don't

417
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.680
remember which one of the victims, but one of their

418
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.039
family members ended up watching the live stream. But at

419
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.359
this point nobody knew that that it was him. No,

420
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.119
that Janelle and Oh they didn't know they had been killed. Yeah,

421
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.279
they had no idea because well, everything again happened so

422
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:19.079
fast after after Eddieka escaped the other two. He didn't

423
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.400
he did that so fast, and so like their family

424
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.279
members were watching and they had no idea that their

425
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.599
own family members had been murdered by this man. Oh

426
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.880
that's terrible, it is. And so while this was all

427
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:35.880
being live streamed, police were surrounded him. Jus was hiding

428
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.599
in the bed of a truck in this parking lot

429
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.039
and he got on Facebook and posted to my wife

430
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:43.160
and kids, I love you, and then he posted doc

431
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.119
or these checks out farewell, I shaid the fuck up

432
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:47.480
just three years off in God.

433
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.799
Yeah.

434
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.680
So at some point he tried to point his gun,

435
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.519
like point his phone like a gun maybe to try

436
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.279
and like have the cops kill him and you know,

437
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.160
like do it.

438
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.480
Let's try to do.

439
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:06.359
Death by cop or what is it called, something like that,

440
00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.279
something like that. But it didn't work, and at two

441
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.440
three four am he came out with his hands in

442
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.480
the air and he was arrested. And once they got

443
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:18.160
to the police station, he refused to talk until they

444
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.400
let him, what is it? They brought him a picture

445
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.200
of his wife and kids, like, go now, you want

446
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.359
to be a family man, now after you've murdered all

447
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:30.119
these people and you've like please, but who was this man?

448
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:38.440
I guess, I guess I'll talk about him. His arrest

449
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.480
came at a time when Border Patrol was under public scrutiny. Personally,

450
00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:45.000
they should always be under public scrutiny and shouldn't exist.

451
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:45.799
But agreed.

452
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:52.799
But his arrest again in twenty eighteen, it was under

453
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.960
It was a time when Border Patrol was under public

454
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.200
scrutiny for accepting unqualified applicants. So then people kept asking, well,

455
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:03.000
how could they let us heeral killer in? How could

456
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:06.160
they not see this? But like on paper, he seemed

457
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:10.079
like a highly qualified applicant. And I would argue that

458
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.599
this is the exact type of person that is attracted

459
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:17.519
to institutions like Board Patrol. Yeah, I would argue the same, Yeah,

460
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.920
a violent person, because this is a violent agency. Like,

461
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:22.920
how are you going to tell me that a good

462
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.519
person is going to join an agency that tells their

463
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:30.079
employees to destroy water for dying migrants, who watches dying

464
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.680
migrants in their face and refuses to get medical help

465
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:38.200
for them. Yeah, who constantly rape women and children? Who

466
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.079
randomly shoots into Mexico? Right, please?

467
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:43.839
So to me?

468
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.200
Of course, of course it's no surprise. But again, not

469
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.200
everyone's there yet. Not everybody understands this, I think. Yeah, so,

470
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.400
like I was saying on paper, he was the perfect candidate.

471
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.640
He was born in Brownsville, Texas, the oldest of four

472
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:02.359
kids and a single parent household his mom. He went

473
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:05.680
to gladys Porter Early College high school, where he ran

474
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:09.279
cross country. He swam competitively. He was a member of

475
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.079
the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and a member of the

476
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:17.119
Assembly of God Church, a youth group in the church. Shocking, yes,

477
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.440
and all. This was emphasized during the trial to show

478
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:23.400
that he was a quote all American boy. Those are

479
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.720
red flags if anything, except the cross country, except the

480
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:31.559
swimming and cross Nope, except the cross country. Yeah, swimming

481
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:32.160
is a red flag.

482
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.319
Sorry, didn't he used to swim?

483
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:41.079
No swimming competitive being in sports, oh not recreationally. A

484
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.720
quote A good sorry, A quote, good Christian man who

485
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:46.079
was suffering from mental health.

486
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:46.799
End quote.

487
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.559
I'm sorry, you know, good man. Don't go on killing spreeds.

488
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:55.440
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

489
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.519
How you want to twist this shit around like good

490
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:04.759
people don't go on killing spreez. Yeah. Period one month

491
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.119
after his eighteenth birthday, before nine to eleven happened, he

492
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.920
had enlisted in the US Navy as a coreman, so

493
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.240
a medic. He was attached to the Marine Corps Air

494
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:20.200
Ground Combat Center in twenty nine Palms in California. His

495
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:23.480
union was deployed to Baghdad in two thousand and three,

496
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:27.079
where he saw intense combat. As that's probably where he

497
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:31.599
practiced serial killer killing the first time. Right. Again, we

498
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.960
don't say this like we know not all soldiers, right,

499
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.720
but it is a fact that wherever the US military goes,

500
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:48.359
sexual assaults increase. Yeah, and so it happened in these places.

501
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.880
So after he met his wife, he got married. Then

502
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.519
he was stationed in Fort sam Houston in the Training

503
00:27:55.599 --> 00:28:00.200
Support Center, and he got a bachelor's degree during that time.

504
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:02.039
And then in two thousand and nine he left the

505
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:06.000
Navy and joined Border Patrol pretty much right away, though

506
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:12.400
he did consider the San Antonio Police Department, but this

507
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.920
part okay, So, but he went with Border Patrol because,

508
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.119
according to a friend quote, he didn't just want to

509
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:20.720
stop the bad guys. He wanted to use his medical

510
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.319
skills to help migrants who had been traveling for days

511
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:25.319
in the desert just to get to the US end.

512
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:29.839
Quote sure, that's what I'm sorry, that's not what Border

513
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:31.920
Patrol does. If you want to do that, join a

514
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:35.000
non profit organization like Alotlado, who does leave water for

515
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.079
migrants and care packages.

516
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:38.200
Yeah.

517
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.720
In his spare time from Border Patrol, he worked on

518
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:46.440
a master's degree in international relations, which he earned in

519
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:50.519
twenty thirteen. He rose through the ranks and was promoted

520
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:55.720
to intelligence supervisor in twenty seventeen, putting his international whatever

521
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.920
the hell it was called, degree to use.

522
00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.039
Yeah.

523
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:01.640
Though he was again rising through the rings, he was

524
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.759
texting an old marine friend about how hard border patrol was.

525
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:06.960
He would tell his friend, like, it feels like he

526
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:09.839
was back in Iraq, that he was going to war

527
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:10.480
every day.

528
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:15.880
Oh what if you just quit? Hold on? Hold on again,

529
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:19.640
I swear to god.

530
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.480
His friend told him, quote, Doc, you're a good guy.

531
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.279
You need to take care of yourself and your family.

532
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:28.200
Have you thought about quitting Border patrol?

533
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:29.440
Wow? Wow?

534
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:34.599
Did you what an idea? But Juan da Vidortiz replied

535
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.440
that he couldn't do that because he was doing his

536
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.200
best to help all the people who need a help. Again,

537
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.119
who was he actually helping? Is there any like no

538
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:47.000
record of him actually helping migrants, because like there's maybe

539
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.599
like one story out there of an actual border patrol

540
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.799
officer helping you know, migrants.

541
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:56.759
You hear about that, especially more back.

542
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.880
In the day, you know, now I think it's less

543
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.480
yeah common now, So I'm just so doubtful of that.

544
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:05.440
No, me too.

545
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:09.119
He wanted probably more opportunity to terrorize people, and that's

546
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.319
why he couldn't lead to feel he was addicted to

547
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:16.000
that feeling of power. The power, yes, the so like

548
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.440
he had never had any disciplinary actions within bord patrol.

549
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.160
The only thing on record.

550
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.440
Disciplined anybody, That's why, But go ahead.

551
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:24.920
No they don't.

552
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:29.119
But the only thing on record is that a migrant

553
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.640
after he was apprehended by Juan, a migrant reported that

554
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.880
he took a cigarette from him. But he stole a

555
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.400
cigarette from him. So I don't think stealing cigarettes from

556
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:40.759
migrants is helping them.

557
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:43.319
Well, he's helping them to not smoke. You know what,

558
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:45.440
Let the migrants smoke.

559
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:50.759
Okay, you already caught them, Like a migrant's been thrown off, No,

560
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.920
but seriously, and so in his personal life everything seemed fine.

561
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.119
He had just bought a house with his wife and

562
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.519
Sonny in the Signey Sea throw ran of La neighborhood

563
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.000
of Laredo. He spent all his free time with his

564
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:08.240
kids and wife, except for Saturdays, where he went hunting

565
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.559
or fishing with his best man, Jerry Solie.

566
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.720
I was going to say where he went hunting for

567
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:16.359
sex workers. I mean.

568
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:23.000
On Sundays he attended the First Assembly of God church

569
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.720
with his family, and FYI, this is an evangelical church.

570
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:33.160
I'm just on this fact. It is evangelical. The number

571
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:39.000
one what is that word? Supporters of Trump. Yeah, very

572
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:43.920
godly of them. This picture perfect American dream life was

573
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.519
not real. At some point, Juanda Vidortis went to the

574
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:51.119
VA and was prescribed some sort of medication. The VA

575
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.440
has never disclosed what this was because they were like

576
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:59.799
confidentiality patient confidentially obviously we can't say that. But Jerry Soli,

577
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.839
his friend, said that he Juana Juan or Thiez, had

578
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:09.440
told him he'd been prescribed antipsychotic medication and he would

579
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:12.160
also see him drinking and insane him ount while on

580
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.319
this medication, which probably doesn't mix well.

581
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.920
Yeah.

582
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.960
At some point in the summer of twenty eighteen, or

583
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.160
thieves also showed Jerry solisa picture of a young woman

584
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.559
on his phone and he said he met her at

585
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:27.880
Gold's gym. And Jerry was like, what the fuck? What?

586
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:29.640
What about your wife? Man?

587
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:31.720
What about your wife and kids? Yeah, you're really gonna

588
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:34.480
throw this all away for some random girlfriend you suddenly have.

589
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:39.920
This wasn't a girlfriend. It was Melissa Ramirez, his first victim.

590
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.559
Oh wow, just days.

591
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:48.200
After showing Jerry Solisa's picture Juan dirie Rothe's murderer.

592
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.000
Wow. And he probably.

593
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:54.039
Would have been able to continue to hide his crimes

594
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:57.920
very easily because of his position within border patrol. But

595
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:02.359
this all went downhill when Eddie got pen escaped. If

596
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:04.640
she had not escaped and had not given his exact

597
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.079
address like, he would have kept doing this.

598
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:08.680
Yeah.

599
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.920
When news of who he was and his past came

600
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.759
to light, people kept talking about his PTSD his mental health,

601
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.079
citing it as the reason for what he had done.

602
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.119
But no, please, he was misogynistic. He talked about hating

603
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.720
sex workers even though he regularly sought their services.

604
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.839
They always do that shit.

605
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.640
They always do that, and it's like, yes, he had PTSD,

606
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:46.519
but the problem is his extreme misogyny and hatred of women. Yeah,

607
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:52.759
and this already normalized cultural violence. And then he was

608
00:33:52.839 --> 00:34:00.240
in spaces where because violence is normalized in our society already, right,

609
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:04.640
as well as misogyny, but he was in these spaces

610
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:10.199
where it was even more, even more normalized. Praise even

611
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:15.440
expected the military, the evangelical church, Yes, stay mad about it.

612
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:16.760
Border patrol.

613
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:18.679
Yeah.

614
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.119
And I'm not sure if it was during his confession

615
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.480
or during the trial or both where he would say this,

616
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.119
or he would say sex workers were quote scum of

617
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:29.760
the earth, trash and that he was quote cleaning up

618
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.760
the street. Of course, of course he said that, and

619
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.360
again he was out here regularly seeking their services. Like,

620
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.960
but they do this, the kind of people that have

621
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:42.639
the mentality. Somehow it never applies to them, even though

622
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:44.639
again they are the ones looking for it too.

623
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:45.760
It's not their fault.

624
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.519
It's always a women's fault. It's a sex fault, not

625
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.159
his fault that he's seeking out, they're enticing him. It's

626
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.320
probably his fault. And oh not sorry, it's probably their

627
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:54.320
fault and his wife's fault.

628
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:54.880
Somehow too.

629
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.159
Yeah, probably, although I can't confirm that in this case

630
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.800
that that was ever believed anyway. Days after his arrest,

631
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.920
one hundred and fifty mourners gathered, including the families of

632
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.480
the women. Claudine Luerra's sister said, quote, but what you

633
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:12.519
have to understand is that all of these women grew

634
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.719
up in our community. We love them and cared for them.

635
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.920
We always felt hoped they would changed. You might not

636
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:21.199
understand this, but we never turn our backs on our

637
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.760
loved ones just because they are going through hard times.

638
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.639
That's part of our culture down here. End quote. And yes, yes,

639
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:35.000
the community came together to donate money for Melissa Ramidez's

640
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.440
cremation because the first thing that her mother, Christina Bernavina

641
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.760
said after the police left was like, how am I

642
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:43.480
going to tell my grandkids? And how am I going

643
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.199
to pay for a funeral? So they came together to

644
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:53.159
contribute for this. Erica Pena who escaped, she was so

645
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:56.840
traumatized by her encounter with Juanda vid Ortiz that she

646
00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:00.440
couldn't go outside. She barely ate or slept. When she sleep,

647
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.360
she had nightmares that he was chasing her in his

648
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:08.760
white truck and through all this the trial, his wife

649
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.360
continued to support juandavidrtis, Oh my god, I'm sorry, but

650
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.360
if I would never stand by a man period not

651
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:26.039
end of sentence, No further information necessary. No, like I

652
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.639
know they said, through sickness and whatever, but like in

653
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:36.239
this a killing spree. No, no, no. But she believed

654
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.400
that it was her fault because she encouraged him to

655
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.760
go to the vier and the medications to the via

656
00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:43.840
gave him caused all of this. It wasn't the medication.

657
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:48.920
It was a hatred of woman and his supposed moral superiority,

658
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:54.159
fueled by his environment, and her belief that it's her

659
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:59.119
fault is also fueled by her environment the evangelical church.

660
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:05.880
Yeah.

661
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.079
During the trial, he said that the reason he did

662
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:10.199
it was to clean up the streets, that as he

663
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:14.440
drove down San Bernardo in Laredo, he felt quote the

664
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:20.519
monster come out. That's not a monster, that a man. Yeah,

665
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:27.920
that's not a monster, that's the patriarchy. He so he

666
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:31.039
he I think the first At some point he he

667
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.599
pled not guilty to everything, despite his detailed and lung confession,

668
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.480
which he said he was like, what's it called coerce

669
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:41.679
to do? Because he was like not not. When he

670
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:45.239
was arrested, and then he was brought in supposedly, the

671
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.639
detective was like, listen, you already messed up. We already

672
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.960
know you did this. If you confess your at least

673
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.400
your wife can have your pension and you will be

674
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.039
she'll be taken care of. And that sounds like something

675
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:00.360
they would say. Honestly, it sounds like things they say normally. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

676
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.840
so whatever to me, that doesn't sound like I don't know,

677
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:05.280
I I don't know if that's coercion. I think that's

678
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:09.440
their usual line of questioning and explanation and manipulation, which

679
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:11.960
they are legally. Yeah, I'm not saying it's right, but

680
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.360
legally yeah, they're allowed to lie to you. Yeah. And

681
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.960
so yeah, they were trying to say there was no evidence,

682
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:22.840
but again, the weapon was in his house, right, so

683
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.800
or on him. I don't one of the two for sure.

684
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:30.079
But so the detailed and lung confession, which led them

685
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.119
to the two other women that they didn't even know

686
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.800
had been murdered. When he was arrested, he led them

687
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:35.920
straight to them like please.

688
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:37.760
Yeah.

689
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:40.760
So all this was shown to the jury, along with

690
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:48.239
autopsy pictures and one juror was dismissed after the autopsy

691
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:51.599
pictures because he fainted when he saw them. Oh wow,

692
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:56.960
that's how impactful it was. On day five of the trial,

693
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:00.199
he again is when he shared his motive that he

694
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.000
wanted to clean the streets up because no one else

695
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.480
was doing it. Apparently again he sought out these services,

696
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:10.039
so right. Also he told his friend Melissa Raminez was

697
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:16.519
his girlfriend. So a different woman who spoke to the

698
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:21.079
Guardian anonymously under Anna Karen. I don't think this was

699
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.719
included in the trial. I think this happened way after.

700
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:29.079
She talked to the Guardian. But she said that Juandais

701
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.039
was a regular client of hers and that he was

702
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:35.960
always talking about Eddie Gapa, the woman who escaped from him,

703
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.280
and when meeting Anna Karen, he would ask about Edika.

704
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.599
Does Edika use needles? Does Ediga take showers? Does Edika

705
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.559
have hepatitis? And the woman would be like, can we

706
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:48.119
talk about me?

707
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:48.800
Like please?

708
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:51.719
He would say that Edika was the only one who'd

709
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.440
been to his house and that Anna Karen could be

710
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.039
the second to ever go to his house, but that

711
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.840
he was obsessed with eddieka Pa. Wow, so this doesn't

712
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.320
sound like someone trying to clean up the streets. Well, no,

713
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.559
because we know that wasn't real. Yeah, but luckily he

714
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:12.480
was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison without

715
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:17.360
the possibility of parole. Surprisingly, the I don't remember who

716
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.760
was a judge who was like, the death sentence is

717
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:23.159
not going to be considered because this is Texas. Like,

718
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.480
I'm just surprised. I don't agree with the death sentence

719
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:29.119
or with the death sentence, but it was off the table.

720
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.000
But he was sentenced to life in prison without the

721
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:34.280
possibility of parole. And after the verdict, family members of

722
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:38.079
the victims gave their impact statements. Melissa Tremds, his sister

723
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:40.760
in law, said that she was quote a loving, kind

724
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.159
and funny person and the hearts of Melissa's children are

725
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:48.480
now broken. She asked Juanna Vidertis if he knew how

726
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:51.760
much pain he caused their family, and then she said

727
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.440
that her heart is torn apart, knowing that she won't

728
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:57.000
to be able to see Melissa, but to visit her

729
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:57.760
in the cemetery.

730
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.800
Oh And in.

731
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.039
Separate interviews, family members of the women have stated again

732
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:07.559
and again how most online reporting of them refers to

733
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.480
them as just sex workers, as if that makes it

734
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:14.519
okay what happened to them. And so whenever they talk

735
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:17.440
with reporters, they share memories and make sure to know

736
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.159
that these women had lives outside of their work. Yeah,

737
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:25.679
because they did. They were loved by their families. Janelle

738
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:30.599
Ortica's sister, rossend artis who the rossend ARTISTO used him

739
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:33.960
pronouns for Janelle, so she said, quote, he was so

740
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:34.559
sweet with me.

741
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:35.519
He really loved me.

742
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:37.639
When I heard about what happened, I was in shock.

743
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.159
I didn't know what to do. I drownded my tears.

744
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:42.159
I just couldn't believe my brother would die that way.

745
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:44.519
I don't think I'll ever accept the fact that he's

746
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:46.679
gone forever, but I just have to live with it.

747
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.800
End quote. And the two bonded over makeup and dressing

748
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:55.480
cue after Janelle came out as trans and Janelle was

749
00:41:55.519 --> 00:42:00.400
burying her favorite red dress, which when Arita give me

750
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.920
chose I know this part almost this part made me cry.

751
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:07.039
When Aretha Franklin had passed away and they were showing like,

752
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.320
you know, the funeral on TV genor Thesas with her family,

753
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:12.840
and she was wearing that red dress and she was

754
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:15.320
like twirling in the red dress. She loved Aria Franklin,

755
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:16.880
and then she was like in the red dress, and

756
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:19.519
she's like, this is how I want to go, like

757
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.280
when I go in my red dress. And so they

758
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.760
buried her in her favorite red dress and they took

759
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:34.519
the flower behind her ear. Oh and it's it's wild

760
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.800
to come across comments about this case because so many

761
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.519
of them are empathizing with Juan da Vidor Theisa and

762
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:44.360
his family. How well, let me tell you what some

763
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.840
of the comments said. Okay, go on, It's sad to

764
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:50.480
see a good man go from good to evil. I

765
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:54.079
would argue maybe he started his evilness a little bit

766
00:42:54.119 --> 00:43:03.920
before he did these things. Because someone also, I have

767
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.519
a problem with painting this kind of thing as evil.

768
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:09.960
That's not a real man, you know, that kind of thinking,

769
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.599
because because it is, this is the extreme end of misogyny. Yeah,

770
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:18.679
this is what the patriarchy causes. This is what toxic

771
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:24.760
masculinity causes. Yeah, so it's not you know, it's not rare.

772
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:26.559
I mean, it's common.

773
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:27.360
I don't know.

774
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.719
I just I just don't like when people say that.

775
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:34.760
But obviously no, I agree, they're stupid. Another one I

776
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.639
saw how horrible for his family that something broke in

777
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:43.840
this good man's mind and made him do this. I

778
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.639
don't I don't think something broke in his mind. I

779
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.320
think I think he hated woman, he hated sex workers,

780
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:59.239
and he hated himself, and because he is was a repressed,

781
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:07.440
uh toxic man, he acted out violently, Yeah, instead of

782
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:12.039
uh going therapy or something. I don't, right, I don't know.

783
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:12.440
I don't know.

784
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:13.480
No, I don't know.

785
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.679
And obviously, yes, it's terrible for his family, right, his family,

786
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:20.800
but him, Like, I don't know, I don't know. Like

787
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:22.559
I don't know how to fully feel about those comments,

788
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.400
except that I don't fully agree. Yet I do feel

789
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:29.159
that that empathy should always and forever be extended to

790
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.599
the women he murdered and the entire.

791
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:32.960
Families who are them.

792
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:38.639
Yeah, their children, their sisters, their dads, they're I mean,

793
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:43.280
come on, yeah. And I want to end with the

794
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:47.239
quote I found by Christa Daring, executive director of Sex

795
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:51.280
Workers Outreach Project USA, and she said, part of what

796
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:53.559
is so saddening about these murders is that they are

797
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.679
so commonplace, and sex workers in general, but specifically those

798
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:01.559
working outside, must decide every day to risk their safety

799
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:05.599
in order to survive. The societal stigma against sex work

800
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:10.280
is a primary driving force behind this violence, and murders

801
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:16.719
of sex workers typically goes unreported. Yeah and yeah, that

802
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:23.800
is completely true. And I don't know, I mean, whenever

803
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:29.880
true crime podcasts talk about this case, it's like obviously

804
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.440
most of them because there's more information about you know,

805
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:34.760
the perpetrator than the victims.

806
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:37.320
But like it's.

807
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:41.159
Like going through everything but not emphasizing that, like, sex

808
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:45.360
workers face this type of violence the most. And another thing,

809
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:48.800
I know that you know, everyone likes to hate on OnlyFans,

810
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:55.079
but only fans gives power to sex workers because they

811
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.360
are their own bosses and they are able to do

812
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.800
their work online instead of being out on the street. Well,

813
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.800
it's like this christa daring cent on her quote. Yeah,

814
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:10.920
specifically those working outside, yeah are in the most danger. Yeah,

815
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.400
and it's true. But I did want to give a

816
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:18.039
shout out to Well, you all know we love Laney

817
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:23.280
Laney's podcast, True Crime Cases with Laney, But when Laney

818
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:27.280
talked about this this case shows an episode on this, Yes,

819
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.360
but you wouldn't know it because almost the whole thing

820
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.679
she just talks about the victims. She just talks about

821
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.239
them and I find it. Yeah, i'll give you the title.

822
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:37.039
I just sent it to me.

823
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.960
Yeah, well, i'll give you the title. Give me the title,

824
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.280
but send it to me. It's just titled the latter

825
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:47.360
the serial Killer. Okay, but she She even starts out

826
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:51.719
the episode talking about how the unfortunate reality is that

827
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:55.960
the perpetrators of violent crime disproportionately target specific groups of women,

828
00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:00.639
people of color, members of the LGBTQ community, users, and

829
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:04.960
sex workers, and the victims of this man were all

830
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.519
of those things. Yeah, so, but yeah, it's a yeah,

831
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:14.440
it's a very informative episode on this, and yeah, I

832
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.079
mean we should always, I don't know, remember them obviously,

833
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:23.000
And yeah, I think, if not deal with but like,

834
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:25.079
how do you get I don't know, get rid of

835
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.480
the stigma of sex work? And oh, okay, I was

836
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:29.239
waiting for you to finish because I was about to

837
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:30.480
say that, Oh thank you.

838
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.480
You're probably gonna say it in a much better way

839
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.880
than I.

840
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:39.800
Yeah, we need to get over our hatred of sex workers,

841
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:45.960
because yeah, the stigma around sex work makes their work unsafe.

842
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:48.400
And not only does it make their work unsafe, but

843
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:54.400
it also brings shame to them. Right, So then they're

844
00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:56.760
if they're wanting to leave that work, they're less likely

845
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:59.599
to leave that work because now they feel stuck. And

846
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:03.239
it also so makes victims of sex trafficking less likely

847
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:06.199
to come forward and seek help because now there's a

848
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:10.599
stigma type you know, to them as supposed sex workers,

849
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:14.519
although sex trafficking obviously is not the same. Yeah, And

850
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.880
that's why feminism is important. But not not just any

851
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.320
old timinism, you know what I mean, because there is feminism,

852
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.159
like an intersectional feminism.

853
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:27.519
Yeah, then includes everyone.

854
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:35.119
Not the other. There's turfs, there's swarfs, not all of those. Yeah.

855
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:38.360
And then like you know, people are always certain, people

856
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:41.519
are always talking about saying the children pizza gain blah

857
00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:42.199
blah blah.

858
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.559
But all of that for a lot of it's not real.

859
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.320
Also, second, a lot of that would never happen if

860
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:53.639
sex work was destigmatized in the first place. So yeah,

861
00:48:53.679 --> 00:49:02.000
and safer. So yeah, it starts with carrying about all people, right, Yeah,

862
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.519
bottom line, at the end of the day, have empathy,

863
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:09.679
care about others, and don't judge others unless it's for

864
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:12.840
things like going on killing sprees and being a border

865
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:17.239
patrol agent. Yes, thank you, Wow. Perfect, And with that

866
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:21.679
we will take a break here and come back with

867
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.360
spooky recommendations or what do they call it on kuts pooky.

868
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:34.280
They have a good name for a palate cleanser. Okay,

869
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:38.360
and we're back. Do you have either a spooky recommendation

870
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:42.639
or something to make us feel happiness? Again?

871
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:45.880
There's my phone.

872
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:52.159
I listened to listen to your Sister by Nina velh

873
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.239
have heard this. I was gonna ask you about it

874
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:57.800
because I saw it on your story graph. Yeah and again, Okay,

875
00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.280
I know like you and another one in my friends

876
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:02.559
they see anything with low A four and they're like,

877
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:04.320
why didn't you like it? And I'm like, no, I

878
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:05.960
liked it. A three is alike.

879
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:06.480
Okay.

880
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:08.880
I was like me what Then I was like, oh,

881
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.239
that's yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah, So I read it

882
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:14.440
three point seventy five out of five. For me, three

883
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.400
means I like it, but there are some.

884
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:17.360
Things that you did.

885
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:20.719
I didn't like and I didn't love it for it

886
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:24.360
to be a four. But ratings are subjective and it

887
00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.159
was an adorable book, I think.

888
00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:29.360
Okay, let me just read the description. Okay.

889
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:32.840
Twenty five year old Kala Williams is struggling since becoming

890
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:36.480
guardian to her brother Jamie. Calla is overwhelmed and tired

891
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:38.519
of being the one who makes the sacrifices to keep

892
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.760
the family together. Jamie, full of good natured sixteen year

893
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.480
old recklessness, is usually off fighting for what matters to

894
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:47.920
him or getting into mischief, often at the same time. Dre,

895
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.480
their brother, promised he would help raise Jamie, but now

896
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:53.280
the ink is dry on the paperwork, and in classic

897
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.599
middle child fashion, he's off doing his own thing. And

898
00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:00.320
through it all, the nightmare never stops haunting Calla, carrying

899
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:03.199
images of her brother's dying that she's powerless to stop.

900
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.519
When Jamie's actions at a protest spiral out of control,

901
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:09.360
the siblings must go on the run, taking refuge in

902
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.280
a remote cabin that looks like it belongs on the

903
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:15.360
slasher movie poster rather than an airbnb. The siblings now

904
00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:18.320
face the new threat, where their lives and reality hanging

905
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:21.760
in the balance. Their sister always warned them about her nightmares.

906
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.880
They really should have listened. So I love the premise.

907
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:28.719
I'm like, well, what's going on here? So I liked

908
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:33.159
the sibling dynamics. I liked the horror was good. I

909
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:36.199
just think for me, it was a little bit too

910
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:39.079
and it could have been that I listened to the

911
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.079
audiobook instead of reading it, so we have three different

912
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.880
point of views, and sometimes you talk about the past

913
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.000
and something's a present, so that makes it a little

914
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.119
tricky for audiobook. So I think, yeah, it would have

915
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:53.000
been better if I read it. And then I think

916
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:57.960
the once they're in the in the horror, it lasts

917
00:51:57.960 --> 00:51:59.679
a little bit too long. It's a little true, too

918
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:03.440
drawn out, like some parts of it. Yeah, but it

919
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.239
was really good still, and like I would describe it

920
00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:12.519
as like an elder sisters or elder siblings assumed responsibilities

921
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.239
and resentments coming to life.

922
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.039
Okay, I love that.

923
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:18.920
Yeah, So I, like I said, it's so really good

924
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:21.360
and I think that people would enjoy it. Just for me,

925
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:24.159
I think the audiobook was a little bit harder to follow,

926
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:26.920
and I think it could have been shorter, Like I think,

927
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:31.880
I think it would have been better for shorter Okay, yeah, nice,

928
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:42.320
all right, I might check it out. I am currently

929
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:48.559
reading The Hunting of Room nine oh four by Erica T. Worth,

930
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:54.719
but I am only like thirty percent through, so I

931
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:59.639
can't say fully if I recommend it or not yet.

932
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.119
But the premise sounded cool enough, so let me share

933
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:07.280
that really quick. Olivia Becente was never supposed to have

934
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:09.599
the gift. The ability to commune with the dead was

935
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:13.920
the specialty of her sister, Niche knightsch I don't remember how,

936
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.119
I don't know how to say it. But when the

937
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:20.239
sister dies, I can't say her name. I'm sorry. Dies

938
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:26.119
unexpectedly and under strange circumstances. Somehow, Olivia suddenly can't stop

939
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:29.679
seeing and hearing from spirits. A few years later, she's

940
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:33.079
the most in demand paranormal investigator in Denver. She's good

941
00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:35.199
at her job, but the loss of her sister haunts her.

942
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.840
That's what she hears from the Brown Palace, a landmark

943
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:41.000
Denver hotel. The owner can't explain it, but every few

944
00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.599
years a girl is found dead in room nine oh four,

945
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.360
no matter what room she's checked into the night before.

946
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:51.000
As Olivia tries to understand these disturbing deaths, the past

947
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:54.639
and present collide as Olivia's investigation forces her to confront

948
00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:59.480
a mysterious and possibly dangerous cult, a vindictive journalist, betrayal

949
00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:03.599
by her friend friends, and shocking revelations about her sister's

950
00:54:03.639 --> 00:54:08.800
secret life. So I mean it had me at someone

951
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.840
dying in room nine oh four. Every it was a year,

952
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:18.519
every few years, even though that's not the room they

953
00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:21.280
slept in. Like the minute that I saw that, I

954
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.119
was like, I must, I must check this out. So again,

955
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:26.199
I'm not fully done with it. I don't know if

956
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:28.280
I can recommend it or not. I do have an

957
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.320
actual recommendation, though, I just want to share that that's

958
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.440
what I was reading. I went to watch twenty eight

959
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:39.719
years later, and I do recommend it. I think you

960
00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:40.679
and I were already talked.

961
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.000
Oh fuck, I dropped my fitches.

962
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:45.239
I know you and I were already talking about it,

963
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:47.679
and I was telling Carmen that, like, I saw a

964
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:50.480
lot of complaints about it and not being not feeling

965
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.079
like a sequel, And I do agree that it doesn't

966
00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:55.360
feel like a sequel, but I don't care.

967
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:56.320
But you're fine with that.

968
00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:58.519
I'm fine with that. It doesn't matter to me because

969
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:03.280
it feels like just an installment in the universe of

970
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:08.079
these zombies of twenty eight years later or twenty weeks

971
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:11.280
days whatever. It's like it's happening in the same place,

972
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.880
in the same but it's not a continuation of like

973
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:17.360
the same exact people. You know. It's just a story

974
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.440
within this universe, and it's a coming of age story,

975
00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:24.360
if anything. I love coming of age stories. Yes, a

976
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:28.480
story of a young person realizing that their father is

977
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.239
not who they thought they were. I love that, Yes,

978
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:36.119
because when we when you come to that realization, your

979
00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:38.880
world shatters and you're fine later, you know, but for

980
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.800
that moment in time when you're grappling with that, wow wow,

981
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:45.199
it's like who who even at my life changing? And

982
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:49.760
so and naturally because of this discovery, he wants to

983
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:53.159
reject his father, but because of what his father has

984
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.920
taught him, he's able to survive. Wow wow wow wow.

985
00:55:57.559 --> 00:55:59.960
And love how you said that too, Like that may

986
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:01.360
me want to watch it. At first, I'm like, I

987
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:02.880
don't really care if I watch it, But now that

988
00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:04.679
you described it that way, it makes me want to

989
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:07.480
watch it. If if you don't go into it expecting

990
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:09.840
a straight up zombie movie, which I never do, I'm

991
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.840
therefore the drama. It's like drama in a zombie universe,

992
00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:16.159
right yeah, yeah, and so again I love a comment

993
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:19.320
of h story. And then you know, someone realizing their

994
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.960
father's not who there they were grappling with that it's

995
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:24.079
when you look at it from that lens, it's it's

996
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:28.960
a beautiful story. The the way it was shot is

997
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:34.880
also so interesting, like it plays with the normal like

998
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:36.840
movie format to me, Like it's not like a straight

999
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.280
up like like there's some scenes where they almost seem

1000
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:42.239
like jarring, like just like jumping. Okay, yeah, one sing

1001
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:44.679
to another or like just the way it was shot.

1002
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.960
But yeah, it's beautiful. Also like the I don't think

1003
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:51.800
this is very much spoilers. I think this is in

1004
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.960
the trailer, but they're on an island and like there's

1005
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.440
this and this is like this is a real island,

1006
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:02.079
but like it's connect to it's a real place, it's

1007
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.719
a real place. It's connected to like England or Britain. Sorry,

1008
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:08.000
I'm at the difference, and like there's I googled it

1009
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:11.199
once and I freaga already. Yeah, I'm sorry. But there's

1010
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:14.639
like water that whenever it's a high tide, the path

1011
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:18.239
is covered, you can't go you can't go there at

1012
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:22.920
the time. Fuel Yes, but it works if you're trapped. Yeah,

1013
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.280
but it also works if you're like trying to stay

1014
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:27.880
safe from zombies. They can't cross at a certain time,

1015
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:31.880
you know, true. So yeah, I loved it. I loved it.

1016
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:39.039
I do recommend it. If you're not expecting just another

1017
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:43.360
sequel or like zombies alone, then yes. But if you're like, no,

1018
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.280
I don't want any coming of age story, I hate kids,

1019
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:50.840
I can't watch it, then don't them kids. But I

1020
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.760
love a coming of age story I know. Yeah, same, yeah, same,

1021
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:57.559
So yeah, that's that's why I do recommend it. And

1022
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:01.079
so yeah, I feel that we have reach the end

1023
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:06.960
of the episode. Unless you have anything else to share, no,

1024
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:11.880
I think that's it. Okay, all right, and in that case,

1025
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:15.599
stay a spooky. We'll catch e ryuin next time.

1026
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:16.719
Bye Bye.

1027
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.960
As Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced

1028
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:24.519
and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with

1029
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:26.880
the help of Don shout out with Don. If you

1030
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.480
aren't joining the podcast considerably going to say five star review,

1031
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:31.280
we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to

1032
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:33.599
the professor review, just don't leave a review, but don't

1033
00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:35.960
leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You

1034
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.480
can reach out to the podcast at a Spooktels at

1035
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:40.280
gmail dot com. You can go to our website at

1036
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:43.599
bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If

1037
00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:45.639
you want to support the podcast, you can join our

1038
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:49.920
Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight

1039
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:53.079
dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool.

1040
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:55.679
I got new ones and these ones are huge. And

1041
00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:58.000
if you want to support, but you can or don't

1042
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.199
want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. We can

1043
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:03.599
also get some merch. You can find shurets to say

1044
00:59:03.639 --> 00:59:06.559
a spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I

1045
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.199
love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no

1046
00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:14.000
Mamus shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot

1047
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.119
of options, crap tops, sweaters. It's almost swetter weather. We're

1048
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:20.239
nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're

1049
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:22.159
gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that,

1050
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.159
that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now,

1051
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:26.920
and that's the best support that you can give us,

1052
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.559
like I always say in our ad break and yeah,

1053
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:33.159
if you like history, you can follow Estoria's Unknown Mining,

1054
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:37.039
Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find as spooky tails

1055
00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:40.079
on all of our socials at Spooky Tells All. This

1056
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:43.840
is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen.

1057
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:45.920
Thank you so much. Stay as spooky