The Haunting of Alejandra Book Club

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Hi everyone. This is Christina,
and this is MJ and also Carmen.

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Yes, this is a book Club
episode where finally recording the episode on the

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Hunting of Alejandra. Yes, it
took us six months, me six months

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to read a less than three hundred
It's less than three hundred pages, isn't

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it. It's like two hundred fifty
two or something. I believe it is.

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Yeah, but you have to also
like count the rest of the pages

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at the end, two fifty four
and the epilogue. Okay, okay,

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yeah, that is how long it
took us. Me I finished way after

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everyone. Was it really six months? Were you exaggerating? Didn't we start

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reading as like in January or December? No? No, no, no,

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no, no, I think we
started reading. I'm like, it

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could possibly be six months. So
it was at three months maybe, Okay,

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so yeah, that makes more sense. Anyway, I just felt like

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very long that there was a moment
where I accidentally just forgot to keep listening.

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You know, It's a good thing
because I'm saying that a lot of

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people still haven't been able to get
it from their library. That's true,

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and so like popular Yeah, I
almost because the Vampires of the North just

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came out. I'm like, I
almost really just like really want to do

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that one, but we could do
this Silver Night Trade first. By the

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time we finish reading it, like, it doesn't matter when it comes out.

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That's true, You're right. I
just want to start reading the other

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one because I just got my I
pre ordered it on audible and it's available

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now, so but I haven't saw
I'm going to read the other one,

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Silver Night Trade is, aren't I? Yes? But yeah, let's talk

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about this book first. Just still
warning for this episode. This is gonna

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be like a very free flow our
thoughts of the book, and then a

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discussion at the end. I didn't
write an outlined plot by plot walk through

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because I'm like, man, these
take really long. They do though,

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yeah, and it's a book,
so it's even longer. So like I

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just struggle with what to cut out
and I leave too much of detail and

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then I'm like, this is ten
pages. So yeah, I did a

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very short, very short one.
So before we start, I do want

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to give a huge sugar warning for
this book. If you've already read it

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with us, then you know that
this book require requires a huge as sugar

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few trigger warnings. So yeah,
did y'all cry? Yeah? Yeah,

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okay, yeah yeah, but I
the sugar warnings. I'm gonna give suicidal

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ideation, depression, intrusive thoughts,
gaslighting. Would you add anything else?

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Emotional abuse? M yeah, let
me see what else? Is there was

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something else? Is there an abortion
or miscarriage? Yes, there is,

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there is there? Okay that too? So yeah, those are the trigger

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warnings for the book. If you
haven't read it, if you already read

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it, then you know and you
suffered and you were bad with us.

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So I'm gonna give a first a
spoiler free summary. Carmen, who's so

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kind enough to write this for me, gotcha? But Alejandra is a stay

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at home mother struggles with the darkness
that only she can see and that threatens

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to consume her. During her darkest
times, a crying woman in white appears

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to her. With no support from
her husband, Alejandra seeks help and start

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seeing a therapist, where she begins
exploring her family history. She soon learns

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that her maternal ancestors also saw the
woman in white, Layarona. She also

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learns that Layrona will not leave her
alone until Alejandra follows La Na into the

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Darkness and that's spoiler free. I
think, yeah, yeah, everything's in

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there, and from now on we
are gonna include spoilers. So if you

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haven't read it, then why are
you listening unless you love spoilers. I

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love I have to watch her before. I'm like, hmm, should I

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even bother with this movie? Let
me see it? Yeah, yeah,

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I will do the same thing.
So so just to go on a quick

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side track, you know how we
laugh about me being diagnosed with ADHD because

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you haven't. Yeah, And okay, so I think my friends are like

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neurotypical or something not to say because
obviously I'm not diagnosed, but whatever,

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but I am and I am your
regenical twin and our DNA is the same.

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So yeah, we're watching this show, which was really good, by

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the way, it's a book series. What was the show called? What

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Show Love Us? It's on Apple
that Oh my god, it was so

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good. But I kept begging them
to tell me what happens, and they

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would not, and I was like, man, if this was if Christina

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was here, if she would tell
me what happens. And I was like,

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you guys don't understand, Like I
need to know. I know,

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and then like they like, we're
still gonna watch it, just tell me

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please. Yeah, I can't be
I cannot be at peace until I know

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if the question is burning, I'm
gonna find out. I cannot wait terrible

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And I'm like, damn, I
just how normal people watch shit? Yeah,

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Carmen, it is normal. People
don't sit there looking for all the

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spoilers. That's that's what I do
too, And like I'm on the phone

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look for spoilers. I'm watching like
I'm something. I got another episode.

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I contained myself while I was sitting
there, And then they're like, Carmen,

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you better not look at it than
up when you go to bed.

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And what did I do? The
minute? I was like silo, Reddit,

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that's what I think you read it. I'm like, how does this

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end? Reddit? What does this
mean? Red? Yeah? Yeah,

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nobody does that. Yeah apparently not
except people like us to know. Yeah.

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Yeah, here for the cheesement,
but like the next level. Okay,

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so yeah, now we're gonna get
into spoiler, the spoiler version of

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this book clip episode. There was
something I was going to say before that,

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What the hell was it? Wow? I've forgotten. Anyway, I'll

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go through the beginning of this though. So we started with Alejandra. She's

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in the bathroom and this fucking scene. I was like, this is triggering

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right off the battle book. We're
starting like this, really, we're starting

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strong already. Yeah. So she's
in the bathroom, she's trying to she's

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in the shower actually, and she's
bleeding from her period. There's knocking at

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the door, and she's like,
oh my god, I just want like

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a moment to myself, like why
can't I just shower? Oh? I

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know that feeling. Oh yeah.
I was like, oh, this is

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too relatable. And then she right
off the bat, like page one or

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two, we start with like the
suicidal ideation thoughts. Right while she's in

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there, do you think she sees
like a silhouette with the torn dressed But

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she's like maybe it's just a towel, And then a voice is you want

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to end it, don't you?
Then she's she's brought out of that moment

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because then we hear her stupid husband
Matthew say, who looks for dinner?

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That's exactly how I imagine he said. It's like, oh my god,

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should I become a voice actor?
I know that last time we did a

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book Club episode. We had the
same thoughts about you becoming a voice actor,

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and really this moment just cemented he
almost choked on my water. I'm

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sorry, there's someone serious. We're
terrible. It's fine though. Yeah.

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Everyone that loves as we can tell
us well love this episode and everyone that

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hates all the laughing and it's like, fuck, these girls get it's fine

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anyway. That's literally his first words. And I was like, wow,

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like right off the bay, we
knew we hated him. Yeah, seriously,

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red flag. And so she's been
in the shower for twenty minutes and

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like she's who, why why don't
he start dinner himself? M that's my

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question. So she's clearly struggling,
So she she leaves the shower and then

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once you know, she gets down, she starts walking down She immediately starts

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hearing like my mom, mom,
mom, and she's like when will that's

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stop? And I was like damn. And as she's walking downstairs, she

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doesn't even get downstairs yet, and
she's she's having more intrusive suicidal thoughts,

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like as she's walking down like obviously
she needs help, right, yeah,

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And she's again pulled out of these
thoughts by the kids that are arguing,

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and then Matthew just like I picture
Matthew sitting on the on the table scrolling

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on his phone. The three kids
are like like literally bitting each other up

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on the kitchen floor, and he's
like stop stop, no, please stop,

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like not even looking at them,
just scrolling on it. That's what

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I imagine him doing. Yeah,
for sure, it was. And we

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learned that this is a new house
for her. They've only been there for

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the whole family. They've only been
there three weeks. They just left Texas

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and they only left because Matthew got
a promotion. And she's thinking about this

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how like you know, it's all
new, and she missus Texas and she's

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on the verge of tears. And
like if you're like walking through your day,

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you know, the verge of tears, like it's rough. Yeah,

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And any not sane person, but
any caring person would see somebody on the

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verge of tears and be like,
hey, what's wrong? But exactly,

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but some people don't see. Yeah, they see that they don't care.

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Yeah, or it's like they don't
care. They care so little that they

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don't even register it, like yeah, they just yeah, it's like invisible,

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like it just doesn't matter. And
that's what Matthew does because like she

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yeah, she's having these thoughts,
she's on the ridge of tears. She

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like takes a deep breath, walks
into the kitchen and like Matthew doesn't say

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any like I think you can tell
when someone was literally on the ridge of

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tears. And so she walked into
the into the kitchen. Someone would say

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like, oh you okay, what's
wrong? Do you need help? And

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the first thing he says, it's
funnily you're here. They're all great.

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I would have lost my ship,
like uh no, and I don't believe

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in abusing your partners, but in
that moment that I would have decked,

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I would face, I would have
thrown hands, were like, bitch,

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you're here. I would It's a
quick little throat punch. They were like

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x raun hinges in this episode,
Oh my god, I think he's kids.

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It's really earlier than we've ever recorded. Yeah, yeah, I think

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a little delution. I only had
one cup of coffee and I haven't had

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my med so damn. So he
and she does tell him, She tells

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him like, oh, well,
you could have started dinner, and then

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he tells her, well, I
don't know what you have planned for dinner.

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You do all the grocery shopping.
It's your job, Like, bitch,

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give him P B and J sandwiches, Like who gives a shit?

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Like come on, mmm, like
any snack to appease them, Like,

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yeah, anything would have done.
Open the fridge and see what can I

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make a lot of this? Yeah, there's corn, dogs, microwaves.

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And the worst thing is that she
had a labeled bag of chicken already and

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veggies that were already cut up,
like it was already ready in a bag,

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Like he could have opened the fridge
and just saw that, like or

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seen it, you know. And
so like when when he says that,

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and she's just like thinking to herself, like this is what he wanted.

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This is his dream, not mine. She thinks about the time she told

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him that she often thinks about death
and that he told her there's no reason

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for her to feel that way because
she has it all Like well, other

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people who could only dream of she
has it, and so like she just

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needs to be happy. Excuse me, you know, it's like that what's

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it called that? That that sound
on TikTok risk, Like, I don't

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understand why that he Yeah, I
killed the man and he walked, and

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I don't understand why he couldn't.
People are saying that he couldn't walk.

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He walked, just fine. It's
like that would have been me. That

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would have been me. Yeah,
because wow, if someone says that to

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you, that's you need to stop
what you're doing. You need to go

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to the doctor, you need to
change. Yeah, because obviously they're not

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supported that. Right. What is
it called weaponized incompetence or whatever it's called.

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Now, Matthew is the definition.
Yeah, yeah, underneath that,

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it's Matthew from the Yeah. Yeah, well I was gonna mention, but

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I've mentioned it once. We're discussing
the book a little bit more there because

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there was critique about Matthew's character.
Say that right now, Okay, well

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we'll save it for us after this. As she's thinking that, she like

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pulls all the stuff out to cook
dinner and it's ready in an hour or

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whatever, and like once they're sitting
down and eating the tension at the table

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and saying, like you could cut
a knife through it, as they say,

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yeah, as they say, I
would have looked him dead in the

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eye while I was like cutting my
whatever, my piece of chicken with my

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knife, be like listen, yeah, I would have actually made a play

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for everyone but him. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know,

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I'm not gonna like, I'm not
gonna yell, I'm not gonna scream,

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I'm gonna argue in front of the
children. I'm just not gonna give you

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your fucking food like will or I'm
gonna make actually make the exact amount where

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there's not even enough for him to
make his own play, like yeah.

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And as she's thinking about they're at
the table and she's thinking about the moment

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from earlier where he told her that
she should just be happy, he interrupts

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her because she looks upset, like
why do you look so upset? You're

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always upset? Like what do you
Yeah, and he again says the same

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thing, just be happy. Just
let people feel their feelings, man,

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Like, Yeah, you don't have
to be happy all the time. You

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can It's okay, you're not.
It's not not really impossible to be happy

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at the time. It's perfectly normal. Yeah. I think once people realize

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like happiness is just something that sometimes
happens, you can be content and that

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sometimes happens. Yeah, they come
and go. Yeah I think it.

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It took me like years to realize
that, but yeah, it's very true.

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And he tells her that she chooses
to be miserable, which then reminds

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her of her adoptive family. Don't
even get me started on them. Yes,

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when we can get started on them, we can do it now because

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we will learn later in the book
that they're abusive. We can save it

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till then. Okay, if you
didn't write up for I did not write

205
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.879
I did not write up to them, so okay, let's fine, just

206
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go on. Okay, So we
get snippets up there, like morning routine

207
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the next morning, right, crying
kids, terrible morning. We get more

208
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.799
thoughts of like she's like driving them
to school or something, or she's picking

209
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.840
them up. I don't remember she's
driving. Yeah, I think we get

210
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.240
both almost back to back, so
I think she's taking them here, but

211
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she's driving. Their arguing in the
back, and she's like, maybe I

212
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.440
should just keep driving into our river
at night without them. They won't know

213
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.559
I'm gone. And they're crying,
the arguing, the asking for me.

214
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It'll just it'll be gone. It'll
be silent, like it'll stop finally,

215
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and oh, I was just like, oh my god, this book it

216
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.320
was it was rough. And then
she we learned a little bit more about

217
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.480
her, like she did have a
job before they moved, she was in

218
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.320
data entry, but like after the
third kid, it just made more sense

219
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.320
for her to stay home, even
though she wanted to work. And how

220
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.840
many people are in this position,
like, yeah, yes, and it's

221
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:18.360
so hard because she's she pretty much
gave up her dream for Matthew's dream,

222
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.000
and you know, she didn't really
have one, but just because she didn't

223
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have one didn't mean that she wanted
this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

224
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.399
And I'm sure we'll get more into
her journey with therapy a little bit

225
00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:36.840
later, but I thought that was
interesting. Basically she molded herself to be

226
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the person that Matthew would like instead
of being herself from the beginning and kind

227
00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.840
of set herself up in a way. But not to blame her for the

228
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.240
situation she's in, but I think
it's something that the therapist also talks with

229
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.960
her about, like about having accountability
and making her see like you can make

230
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your own decisions. Yeah, it
doesn't have to be this way, even

231
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.799
though it has been this way,
like it can change. Yeah, And

232
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like reading the book, you get
why it happens, you get why she

233
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why she did this because of the
terrible family situation that she was in.

234
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She just needed to escape. She
never really had a sense of who she

235
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because I mean, as you're growing, you're always changing, right, You're

236
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not who you were ten twenty years. You're making You're developing your own sense

237
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of identity. And I think,
I think like who you are as a

238
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person kind of develops in the twenties. I know for me it did.

239
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I know for a lot of people
it did, because a lot of people

240
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are like, oh, when you're
in high SCHOOL'M like, no, no,

241
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.799
you're still baby. Then you form
who you are in your twenties early

242
00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.519
thirties. I feel like I'm forming
who I am now in my thirty thirties

243
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.440
too. Yeah, Like twenties and
thirties is like the moment that you become

244
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who you are as an adult.
Yeah, And I think that when you

245
00:17:53.640 --> 00:18:00.480
have a traumatic past and childhood and
experiences like that, those moments you there,

246
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.880
I think they're going to take longer
to come. And instead of I

247
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.519
don't know, instead of she because
she was trying to find a way out

248
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of her home situation and the safest
and what looked like the best option was

249
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Matthew. So you can see how
her minded it was safe and it makes

250
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.720
sense. But then she's you know, she's trapped, but well, let

251
00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.559
me finish what I wrote because it's
almost done, because it wasn't a lot.

252
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:33.920
So going back to her driving and
thinking right as she's she's going through

253
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.559
her in her head about how she
didn't even want to move, she wanted

254
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.039
to keep working, she didn't even
want to stop working. She's thinking all

255
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.359
of this and the message from Matthew
comes in about how he's going to be

256
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.319
late, and then she's like,
are you serious. He's been gone,

257
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.519
he's gonna be he's gonna be gone. He's been gone, He's already gonna

258
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:53.079
be late, like he's never there, and even when he is there,

259
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:59.440
he doesn't help. But like maybe
she could, I don't know, have

260
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.440
a moment herself if there's another adult
there. Right, But now he's going

261
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.720
to be late, and so she's
not paying attention because she's thinking all the

262
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.839
stuff, and she hits the car
behind her or in front of her,

263
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.920
like rear ends the car in front
of her, and because she'd been so

264
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.519
distracted. And then she's like,
great, this is another thing that I'm

265
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.559
going to have to explain to Matthew, like why even happened? And then

266
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she's thinking to herself like why am
I so bad at this? Like this?

267
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:27.599
She she keeps thinking like motherhood,
living like this, this life,

268
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.119
it should be easy, it should
come natural to other people, but it's

269
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.319
so hard for me. Why is
this so hard? Because I'm terrible?

270
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.000
Because I suck, because I'm the
worst? That negative self talk on a

271
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:45.000
loop? Yeah yeah, that made
me cry? Yes, that did?

272
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:51.480
It was it was right? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know who hasn't

273
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:56.759
had those thoughts, you know.
I think people with depression have those thoughts,

274
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:08.279
people like my friends about with the
show again, yeah, or when

275
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:14.319
you have untreated mental diagnosis, Is
that you didn't know about that could cause

276
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.640
depression because you had no idea?
Yeah, because you weren't you didn't know

277
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how to manage your life because you
didn't know you need extra or different ways

278
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:25.680
of managing your life. Yeah exactly. Yeah. But yeah, once she

279
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:26.720
said that, I was like,
oh my god, and it's so like

280
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.640
rough to see because she's like there's
this new term that I've started seen popping

281
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:37.400
up, but single married momsy,
Yes, when she's a single married mom,

282
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.480
she's she's doing all the work of
a single parent, but she's technically

283
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.759
married however. But it's like it's
it's what's the point, what's the point?

284
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.160
You're you're a single parent if he's
not there, if he's not helping

285
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.039
you with the kids, whether it
is for school work, emotional support,

286
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:57.039
because like I know, most of
the moms carried the emotional weight of the

287
00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:00.720
family. Like, not only do
you have to handle your emotions, you

288
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.599
have to handle your mental load,
yeah, the mental load. Yeah.

289
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.200
And if a man isn't helping you
or your your spouse, it doesn't have

290
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.440
to be a man. But like
your spouse is not helping you, you're

291
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.640
you're pretty much a single parent even
though you're married. But you're a single

292
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.759
parent. You're doing everything. It's
even worse because when you're like, say

293
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.880
you're divorced, because you don't know
when through all the ship and you have

294
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.319
some nice to yourself because you're sharing
custody. You don't have that as a

295
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.759
single married parent, don't. You
don't. And it's like it's like,

296
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.319
be you're not alone, but you're
the loneliest you've ever been. Yep,

297
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.000
yeah, yeah, I felt for
her. It was yeah, yeah,

298
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.039
it's I'm telling you this would Yeah, it's just makes it makes me so

299
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.920
frustrated. I was so mad.
I wanted to jump in there and just

300
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.880
throw hands with it's just fucking punch
him in the throat. And as she's

301
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:55.319
leaving this accident scene, she sees
the woman from the shower again. She

302
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:56.480
thinks she does, but then she
kind of talks herself out of it.

303
00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:00.440
They get home, it's the same
shit again. And then the oldest girl,

304
00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.079
Katrina, so she asked for like
a bedtime story, and this she

305
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:11.240
tells her the story of Layrona,
and she's like something, I think seeing

306
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.039
the woman in white that she thinks
she's been seeing but she's not sure maybe

307
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.119
like inspired her to tell her the
story of La Rona. But then like

308
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.720
a little Katrina is like scared.
But it turns out that she's been seeing

309
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:26.359
this woman yea, which I'm skipping
a lot because I think we learn that

310
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.440
a little bit later, but like
in between, I think there's a point

311
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.000
where Alejandra realizes, like I really
need help like like I really actually need

312
00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:38.160
to seek help, and she goes
and she finds Melanie Melanie, and I

313
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.599
love Melanie. I mean too.
I'm like I was like, how do

314
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.839
I find a therapist? Slash heler
like, hey, yeah, how do

315
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:51.200
I find a Melanie? But yeah, Melanie is the therapist that she finds.

316
00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:56.359
But she's also so she's like very
open to like she understands the cultural

317
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:03.039
background the Alejandra comes from because was
adopted it into white a white Christian family,

318
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.559
and Alejandra her background everyone is Mexican, but I don't think she knows

319
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.440
much about them until she does,
like an ancestry test, you know,

320
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:57.480
finds her birth mom that way.
M hmmm. Before they left Texas to

321
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.559
go to Philadelphia, she had just
started reconnecting with her mom. Another reason

322
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:06.640
she didn't want to leave, finding
that community that she longed for for so

323
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.240
long. Because on top of like
being a single not yeah, I was

324
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.880
gonna say a single mom, single
man, but yeah, on top of

325
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:18.599
being you know, a new parent
with that many kids, a newborn or

326
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.799
yeah, the baby's like not even
a year old, right, I don't

327
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:25.440
I don't remember how old he is, but he's little, yeah, or

328
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:30.519
she's sorry, the baby nine months
or something. Yeah, yeah, it's

329
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.759
like it's a little baby. Then
Katrina's like in her close to tween,

330
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.000
right yeah, and then the other
one is in between. But like three

331
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.279
kids, there's a new like a
new baby in the mix. She just

332
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.559
finally got the community she's so longed
for because she was adopted and she already

333
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.960
felt like she was missing a part
of her. She finally finds her and

334
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:53.400
like you know, some some adoptive
people, it takes longer to connect like

335
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.920
that with a parent, but she
she was like a little reserve, but

336
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.359
almost all in right away. She
was very happy to find her mom,

337
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.200
and then that gets taken from her. But then she's also in this new

338
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.519
place and she doesn't want to tell
her mom, her bio mom, you

339
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.200
know what's going on with her,
because she's like, I just met her.

340
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.799
I don't want to scare off.
She can't talk to anyone about the

341
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.079
thought she's having either, So it's
it's just like a it's a terrible it's

342
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.000
a terrible situation. And to me, I don't know, but like I'm

343
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:27.000
speculating that Matthew didn't like the fact
that she had someone else in her corner,

344
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:33.240
and it almost and it almost felt
like his move to Philadelphia with something

345
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:38.519
like for what does it about familial? Yeah yeah, yeah, I think

346
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.160
if it wasn't it worked out that
way anyway for him, for him,

347
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:48.480
for him specifically, because there's a
part where she tells Matthew she learned about

348
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:49.960
her mom and she's going to meet
with her, and he's like, why

349
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.519
we're all the family you need?
Yeah, I need to not make it

350
00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:57.559
voice, but that's what it came
off as to me, like he was

351
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:03.720
like I selating her so he could
further control her. Oh that's what I

352
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.960
was gonna say. Yeah. So
it goes beyond like weaponized incompetence and she's

353
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.839
being like a useless man. He's
like an abusive, controlling man. Yes,

354
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:17.599
m but tries to not come out
off that way. Yeah, like

355
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:22.240
covert abuse yeah, uh huh.
Yeah. So where it took her so

356
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.880
long to realize what it was because
she was in such a dark place.

357
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:30.839
But once she starts going to see
Melanie, she starts seeing like, yeah,

358
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.440
I don't need this, this is
I can change my future. I

359
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:40.440
don't have I have ag yeah yeah
yeah, And and it's scary because she

360
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.720
had not been working for so long, but yeah, the going through the

361
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.599
therapy and then oh, another thing
that was like different about like Melanie is

362
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.119
that she tells her about, you
know, the figure she's been seeing,

363
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.039
because there's at one point there's no
denying that this figure is actually something that's

364
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.519
hunting Alejandra. It's like she sees
it here and there, but then she

365
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.359
sees it in the backyard or something. Yeah, and she and the therapist

366
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:08.440
office that one point, yeah,
but isn't at the moment she sees it

367
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.200
and like the kids closet. But
then she's like, I need to tell

368
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.319
Melanie about this, yeah, because
she feels like it's escalating, and yeah,

369
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:22.920
Katrina's closets because she's the one that
sees her. Yeah, Katrina tells

370
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.920
her she still saw it too,
and that's when she's like, I'm needs

371
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:30.359
to tell Melanie and instead of just
missing her or anything, because Melanie understands

372
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.519
this cultural background and because she's like, yeah, I believe you. This

373
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:40.680
is not just your like trauma.
This is like the hunting, this is

374
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.480
this is something else. And they
look into it and they're like, oh,

375
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.799
let's yes, but like I think
we skipped a part where we go

376
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.880
back to her first ancestor that made
the fact of this thing. Yes,

377
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.039
we do, Yeah, because the
book goes back and forth, and so

378
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.079
as Alejandra has seen it, we
see snip it of what it actually is.

379
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.400
But Alejandra obviously doesn't she didn't fully
comprehend. Yeah, but we do

380
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:10.160
get a more info. I think
it's like as early as it's early on.

381
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:14.440
Isn't it after her like first bake
Drone? Yeah, the second Chester,

382
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:15.400
isn't it. I want to say
it was the second, but I

383
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.440
can't even find it right now.
Yeah, Yeah, it's on. It

384
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.799
starts on page thirty four mm hm. And it's Mexico, fifteen twenty two.

385
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:29.720
Yeah. And the ancestor was at
sim At. This part was wild

386
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:33.039
too, the whole mindel That's why
I finished his damn Books of Fasca.

387
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:38.519
I couldn't stop reading. And I
like how the author did that whole thing

388
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:45.519
that this creature was from like another
dimension or universe, that when this universe

389
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:52.640
or dimension formed, it like it
was like pushed into it and stuff.

390
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.440
Yes, so I thought that was
really cool. It takes place in fifteen

391
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:03.559
twenty two in Mexico and her and
Tire village and people are being what is

392
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.160
it called, colonization is happening.
Yeah, yeah, colonization is happening,

393
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:14.119
and she has to stay behind as
her sister, her baby, and her

394
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.440
father escape. The chapter was amazing, but it was also very rough.

395
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:23.519
Yeah. Yes, because then she's
then becomes like a I want to say,

396
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:29.519
like a like a slave to I
think, and slaved to one of

397
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:40.880
the colonizers I forgot his name,
Sebastian. Sebastian, Yeah, and Sebastian

398
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:45.799
is married and all this stuff,
but he's still like abusing at sea,

399
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:52.839
like sexually, and she becomes pregnant
with Sebastian's baby. Yes, and this

400
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.559
is where this creature thing, I
don't know what to call it. It

401
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:02.119
comes off as a vampire but also
as a cool like the way the description

402
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:07.079
is like of a ghoul, like
you know, it's like almost skeletal and

403
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.720
has like the skin really forming the
shape of the ghoul. But then the

404
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:18.119
way it like feasts on things,
it's almost vampiric and the way it feasts

405
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:26.640
on negative energy. So I don't
know what to call it. Welcome to

406
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.119
our little hunted break. We want
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407
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408
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409
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410
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411
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412
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413
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414
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415
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416
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417
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418
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419
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420
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.519
is just listening to our episodes here, so thank you for doing that.

421
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:48.799
Fuck it's a combination between like a
vampire a demandor and Colin Colin. Oh

422
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:55.359
yeah, oh sorry I met Colin. Are we doing the shadow? Yeah?

423
00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:00.880
But like if there was a scale
like what I don't see, Okay,

424
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.119
he could because he's like an energy
vampire. Yeah, and she is

425
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:08.039
too, and feed off it's not
yeah, it's not energy, but it's

426
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:14.039
like negativity. Yes, the emotional
vampire in what we do in the Shadows.

427
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.319
That is Colin's girlfriend at one point. That is who Yeah. Yeah,

428
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:23.279
I was gonna say like almost like
uh, what is that legend?

429
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:30.400
Oh my god, she's in the
trees and shit and she's like snake ish.

430
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.359
She was in one of Syria's books
and we've done an episode on her

431
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:46.480
and they cannot remember her name.
Oh yeah. By I feel like it

432
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:52.000
was like at that took me a
many Yeah, I know, I was

433
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:53.799
completely drying to blank. I feel
like it's a mixture of that and like

434
00:32:53.839 --> 00:33:00.720
a witch like like yeah, it's
like almost I guess that that too.

435
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.920
That too. It was like I
can't say it, how it how it

436
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.920
feasts on like feast on babies,
babies. Yeah. Yeah, And I

437
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.880
do like the ending of this chapter
because I was like really happy the way

438
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.519
Subastian. I was like getting them
get up. I was like, you

439
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.359
want to go through it, one
of you? What happens to him?

440
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.960
Oh? Hold on. It was
just all you're probably on the page,

441
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:32.440
right, and I'm not on the
page. You were still on it.

442
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:38.240
Say that this is like basic,
especially we're seeing the creation of this thing.

443
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:43.119
Yeah, yeah, the creation and
it morphs into what we know as

444
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.000
Laurona. And I just thought that
was beautiful because you see her name or

445
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.200
the because I feel like Eatsy herself
is Laurona and it takes her form her.

446
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:57.359
Yeah yeah, and then like yeah, okay, so before his end,

447
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.799
I do remember that at Sea was
I don't know what happened to her,

448
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:07.440
but she was like wishing for death
or something or for her the baby

449
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.000
inside her to be killed, and
then this thing like hurt her or like

450
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:15.119
felt her, yes, felt her
please, and was like because the baby

451
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.119
in her is as a result of
Sebastian assaulting her, right, yes,

452
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:24.800
yes, And she was like she
didn't want it, and she also didn't

453
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:29.199
almost like gave up on life,
and she was like making a pact with

454
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:39.280
this thing, and the pact was
made and this thing took the baby out

455
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:44.840
of her and ate it. Yeah, I think so, yeah, because

456
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.280
I so. To anyone else,
it looks like a mother killing her child,

457
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.320
like, but really, what is
happening is that a horrible situation and

458
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.880
she needed out, she needed out. Yeah, and so it's like a

459
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:01.480
like a yeah, I mean a
rewriting of like yes, yeah. But

460
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:06.880
in the pact. One of the
deals in the pact was that this thing

461
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:15.440
had to go after Sebastian two and
and she yeah, and she And at

462
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:22.239
this time Sebastian had moved his wife
and his child from Spain. Yeah.

463
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.519
I don't remember how old his child
was. M I don't remember either.

464
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.159
It was like it was either a
baby or a oh his two Okay,

465
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.000
I'm on page forty two, and
it says, with an oil lamp hand

466
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.719
taken from the front of the house, he crept towards the room where his

467
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:45.840
two children slept, two kids that
he had with his wife, and he

468
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:51.400
like goes throughout his house and he
discovers one by one that his family has

469
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:58.199
been murdered by this thing. He
thinks, I think he thinks it's one

470
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.559
of the It doesn't I don't think
it says who he thinks it is.

471
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.559
But he's someone someone indigenous. Yes, yes, yes, but he doesn't

472
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.079
have like a thing. And then
he's on page forty three revenge she would

473
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.679
have to wait. So that's what's
going on in his head. He's he's

474
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.440
like contemplating revenge to whoever, whoever
did this, Okay says before he takes

475
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.320
another step to door slump behind him. He turned around and a slashing pain

476
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:29.400
seared his hand, causing him to
drop the lamp. And this is at

477
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:36.719
the time where the creature starts attacking
him, and it says his peripheral vision,

478
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:40.079
he saw a figure standing outside.
It was an indigenous woman. She

479
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:45.159
stood with her clothing and hair dripping
with water and a large grin on her

480
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.119
lips. Her entire body had the
luminosity of the moon. Her eyes met

481
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.719
his, reflecting his cruelty back to
him. Then she walked away and with

482
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:57.679
the shirt steps before he could screw
his neck farther from the darkness to follow

483
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.000
her. With her eyes, a
shadow emerged from behind the door, and

484
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:05.559
in its hands it held his horsewhip. Oh, which I think he used

485
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:12.280
the horsewhip to like beat the the
indigenous people they enslaved. Yes, so

486
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.119
the creature was like, Oh,
they're gonna do it to you. And

487
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:22.039
then he calls it a demon m
hm. On page forty four. Oh

488
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:31.760
she's whipping him. And yeah,
but here we we get we start seeing

489
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:39.199
how the being I hate the word
being because I sound oh Bean, sim

490
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:45.199
still stuck on that which is a
demon, because that's like the closest thing

491
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:51.119
we're going to get to it like
encompassed everything. And and we start seeing

492
00:37:51.159 --> 00:38:00.039
this demon I cat dec We start
seeing this demon in the beginning of and

493
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.639
us like line of ancestry, and
and then we we see generation by generation

494
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:12.559
how this thing attaches itself and affects
everyone. Yeah, it's generational trauma,

495
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.360
Like yes, it's just amazing the
way she made it into a demon,

496
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:21.519
because you can trace people's it goes, it travels. That's why it's a

497
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:23.960
word. That's why it's a thing. Generational, Like it's real. And

498
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:29.760
you know, for her to go
all the way back to colonization then the

499
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:37.480
Mexican Revolution, Like oh yeah,
and I love that because there's so much

500
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.719
scientific research that shows that generational trauma
actually changes your genetics, so you could

501
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.800
actually trace it scientifically, I mean, I mean not just like psychologically,

502
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:58.760
but also there's like mutations in people's
DNAs due to generational trauma. Yeah,

503
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:01.280
yeah, just so. Yeah,
the way that it was depicted through this

504
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:06.599
thing brilliant. Yeah, and we
see we literally see how it's affecting every

505
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:10.079
single one of her ancestors and then
how this thing like thrives off of all

506
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:15.880
the trauma. Yeah. I love
it. Yeah, it's thought of it.

507
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:19.280
It's like ecstasy to it. I
was like, yes, and yeah,

508
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.280
I literally so grossed out. Also, like I think a really good

509
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:30.639
personification for narcissistic abuse, because this, this this demon creature thing is a

510
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:36.639
narcissist. I mean, it's just
it's manipulative, it's abusive, and it

511
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:42.599
feeds off of it's victims. It
wants it's yeah, them to stuff.

512
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:49.320
Remember how mad it was when Catherine
basically said like, nah, I'm not

513
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.199
doing this, and I mean I'm
obviously and that's defining the process of her

514
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.440
giving yeah up for adoption. Nah, I don't want to do this.

515
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.159
Yeah, but that was her way
of like stopping, you know, the

516
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:06.639
cycle for herself, and she stopped
there for herself, but not for future

517
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.800
generations because she didn't even she's not
going to think about that it was what

518
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:17.159
seventeen, But then we start seeing
it take hold or start planting its little

519
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:22.719
seeds into Katrina and it starts,
Yeah, it really does. But like

520
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:27.679
if you think about it, like
you know, starts start early, starts

521
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.760
there early, it does. And
how many kids I remember, like,

522
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:36.400
especially in our culture, like from
being as young as I don't know,

523
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:42.280
as soon as you could walk,
you have like comments told like muhs and

524
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.079
stuff like that. And that is
generational trauma, because that is shit that

525
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:50.280
has affected all of us as women. Our mothers are grandmothers and all that

526
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:58.559
stuff, and especially yeah, so
ingrained and all that is abuse in trauma.

527
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.800
And we get taught it as as
soon as we're born, and people

528
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.280
and our family probably talked about it
even before we were born, honestly,

529
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:13.840
and the womb in the womb m
yeah, But through therapy, Alejandra starts

530
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.920
seeing like we need to beat this
thing. This thing can't do this to

531
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.920
us anymore. We're gonna end it. And and then Matthew starts seeing a

532
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:27.440
change in her too, and he's
a little bit about it. Of course,

533
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.519
of course I didn't write down any
like direct quotes of what he says,

534
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:34.039
but it's more of the same,
like he's just the worst. Yeah,

535
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:39.719
he sucks. And then there is
a point where Melanie the thing actually

536
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:45.239
physically manifests itself. And think she's
in alejanderson Will's room when this happens,

537
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.599
and so then she talks Melanie about
it. Melanie comes over. I wanted

538
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.840
them to hook up. I thought
they were going to. They don't raise

539
00:41:52.880 --> 00:42:01.519
serious Melanie, she's a therapist.
There's a I just thought that they would

540
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:05.199
liked each other, and I don't
know that. I think I saw that

541
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:10.960
she's a social worker, so I
just thought they were. There's a pamphlet.

542
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:17.440
There's a pamphlet. I'm sorry,
Karmen is a social worker. This

543
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:22.679
is where she still worked up about
this. I am that would have been

544
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:27.800
a violation. Cute couple, Are
you stop it? I'm not pulled through

545
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:35.960
the screen and punchy right now.
There's an ethical violation. Clinicians and therapists

546
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:44.239
aren't a power position over their clients. Okay, well, then I hope

547
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:49.000
there'd beffs now that that would also
be an ethical violation. You can't be

548
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:58.679
friends with your clients, don't I'm
not. Yeah, there's a pamphlet when

549
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.360
if a client tells you that they
had like a relationship or sex with their

550
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:06.039
previous therapists or something like that,
you have to give them a pamphlet that

551
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:10.400
says therapy does not involve sex.
Oh my god, I didn't know that

552
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.079
people lose their licenses over that.
Oh shit, Okay, well then I

553
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.679
take it back as they should.
Oh yeah, you're right, you're right,

554
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:21.000
it is wrong. I just thought, and that is why I should

555
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.280
pass my exam on the twenty five. I believe in you that that was

556
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:29.800
an a for me. Was not
That was not not a good lesson on

557
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:36.760
the Code of ethics. It was
it was I needed it obviously. But

558
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:39.679
Melanie comes over and not like a
is it like a cleans just like a

559
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:45.079
cleanse cleanse? Yeah, and they're
they're gonna but it doesn't like it works

560
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.480
maybe a little bit, but the
thing comes back. Then they need like

561
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:52.719
a better plan. And so then
Katherine, Kathy you know, comes over

562
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.760
from Texas. She's like, no, my daughter needs me. Because Kathy

563
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:00.480
also sees the thing. Yeah,
oh my god, woman, that had

564
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:06.920
scene when she sees it in the
in the baby's room that I was like,

565
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.280
damn. And then it's not horror. Do you have the sentence near

566
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:14.079
you? One of you? I'm
trying to find it. I am what's

567
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:19.000
it called? On Francis's Oh,
that's where I am too, because I

568
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.159
think it had been like a bad
night where Alejandra one it was a bad

569
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:27.360
night where they saw the thing or
something like that, and then Kathy knows

570
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:29.880
something is wrong. She feels like
something is wrong, and then a handa

571
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.039
calls her, but Kathy has already
booked her, Like yeah. The one

572
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.440
thing I don't like is that Alejandra
kept on making her kids sleep in different

573
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.840
rooms. I'm like, this thing
is out there. Why aren't you having

574
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.280
your entire family and run one room
so you can protect them. I was

575
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:46.800
so mad at her for that.
I was like, girl, yeah,

576
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.119
sleep on the floor, have your
kids sleep on the bed, But why

577
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.199
are you? But I wonder if
that would have scared the kids even more,

578
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:57.639
you know, like maybe she's trying
to maintain a sense of normalcy.

579
00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:00.440
But then I also feel like it
was just like it was too much.

580
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.239
It's like you can't get to your
babies in time. Also true, it's

581
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.519
hard. I'm like, you know
what kids are gonna do? A sleepover?

582
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:14.719
No? Nothing's wrong. Everybody gets
marshmallows and watch movies. I just

583
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:19.119
want some family time, no reason
kids. Okay, I found it.

584
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:25.400
It's so Yeah, she sees like
a woman where the newborn sleep, and

585
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:30.679
the woman is like an outdated we're
an outdated address from the fifties, and

586
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.760
she can't tell like the women's features
from far away. But then she gets

587
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.119
closer and closer, and now I'm
going to start eating shit, she said

588
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:42.239
to herself. Kathy took a big
stripes to reach the end of the hallway,

589
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:45.960
her heart pumping hard. She needed
to exercise more at her age.

590
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:50.159
Sorry, Kathy stopped in front of
the glass wall where you can view the

591
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.280
newborns. She gasped. A hideous
creature in the guise of a woman in

592
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:58.079
white stood among the babies. And
it didn't wear a dress, at least

593
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:00.840
not in the real sense. It's
dress was the patrick of dead flesh and

594
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:07.119
fabric kinging over its exposed bones.
Its eyes had a glare of greed while

595
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:13.480
bloody saliva drink from its mouth.
And then yeah, and then she calls

596
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.400
her help, and obviously the thing
is gone. Yeah. When someone gets

597
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:22.719
there and they're like, girl,
you need a vacation. We also didn't

598
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:25.440
mention just because we skipped a bunch
of like the recap. But Katy's own

599
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.280
mom, obviously we know Alejandra's whole
line of ancestors have been affected by this

600
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.599
entity, this demon. But Katy's
own mom, it was terrible. The

601
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.719
thing took her. The thing won. Oh. I was going to ask

602
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.159
if because I didn't remember if it
was Katy's mom. The when I was

603
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.360
like hooking up with people in the
hotel, that was Francis. Yeah.

604
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:52.440
Yeah, because she needed to feel
alive. She and again it was the

605
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:57.599
depression, postpartum depression, and then
you know, prolonged like untreated postpartum depression.

606
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:00.320
And then she just like left one
day and then she but she left.

607
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.679
Okay, I forgot what happened,
and she does end it those like

608
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:12.079
thoughts that happen. She actually what
did she do? She she walks into

609
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:15.039
the river. She walked into the
river. Yeah, and so so Kathy

610
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:21.360
herself never never knows finds out what
happened to her mom. And then the

611
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:28.920
same thing with Kathy's dad was like
weaponized incompetence. The same thing wouldn't help,

612
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.800
but dad was more like he was
just working and working, and he

613
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:36.800
left the kids with his family and
he was in and out, so it

614
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.599
wasn't even weaponizing in cuppints, so
it was just like he was not there.

615
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:45.719
Yes, it's like when he's married
to Francis. No, even when

616
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:49.400
he was married to Francis, he's
like a work because he wasn't in the

617
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.079
midd military comes and goes, so
he's not there. And then when he's

618
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:55.559
back, he just gets her pregnant
and he goes again and comes back and

619
00:47:55.679 --> 00:48:00.880
goes and then uh, then she's
largely absent. He's also largely absent,

620
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:08.239
and she sees him with another woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this

621
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:17.960
is like the more Latino version of
what Matthews doing. Yes, But and

622
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.679
Kathy, when she's giving birth to
Alejandra, she hears the thing, but

623
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:28.440
she doesn't really register it until that
night when she sees it again at the

624
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.960
hospital and that's why she books the
flight before even Alejandra calls her, and

625
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:36.280
then you know, then they go
over there. They have a plan to

626
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:43.360
get rid of it, but it
involves Alejandra temporary her harming herself because that's

627
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.119
what the thing wants, so they
need to like lure it in. But

628
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:49.800
they're only luring it in. But
Kathy doesn't want to do it. She's

629
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:53.039
scared because you know, she's she
could possibly lose as like no, because

630
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:58.199
this thing is gonna keep, it's
gonna it's gonna take little Katrina and then

631
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.639
her children if she has them in
the future. It's not going to stop

632
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.880
and needs to end here. And
so she like cuts herself and then like

633
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:08.599
pushes that thing inside her basically right, yeah, it's pretty graphic, it

634
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:13.719
is, but but yeah, they
I mean they in the end, they

635
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:19.880
win, right, And I like
the ending where she just like, yeah,

636
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.239
yeah, she does this thing that
she's recovering. And then do we

637
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:27.000
like get a little fast forward and
she does like leave Matthew, right,

638
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:30.800
yeah, I does. I think
she like I don't know if she like

639
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:36.000
fully says I left Matthew, but
like I think she talks to him about

640
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:43.400
like I think something like that.
Yeah. And then okay, so I

641
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:45.719
read like at the end, because
I have some things that we like didn't

642
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:52.039
cover that the creature says that she's
not the the youna the woman are that

643
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:57.960
she makes like a separation that that's
that's what I said at the beginning,

644
00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:01.719
that se and the thing takes her
form. Oh my bad, keep saying

645
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:08.639
its yes, Noel, Noel.
I think it's did her name all wrong?

646
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:14.840
And then where's the other one that
Israel? Yes? And then what's

647
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:22.800
it called? Oh oh oh the
ancestor, the ancestor that fought with us,

648
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:29.320
and she gives them the secrets?
Mom? Yeah, mom? Was

649
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.079
it Francis's mom or grandmother? I
think it was her grandmother? Oh my

650
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:38.039
bad? Okay, yeah. I
think she figures out because she her story.

651
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:43.480
Her chapter was amazing, I think
my favorite. Yeah, we forgot

652
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.119
to mention this whole thing. And
she meets Amelia, who we talked about

653
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:50.639
on his story as unknown. Oh
my god, yes, I texted you

654
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:54.440
right away. You did. Yeah, that was an amazing chapter. She

655
00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:02.679
ends up falling in love with Sapa
and and she gets pregnant with I thought

656
00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:07.360
it was just another so it was
about that, right, I thought,

657
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:13.360
So does this happen? Yeah?
And so she ends up falling in love

658
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.679
with him, gets pregnant, but
they're still in the war thing, and

659
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:21.960
then she goes, yeah, she
killed you. She shot. No,

660
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.400
she's shot, but like the thing
is like they're in a tent and she

661
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:30.639
was having like a like some kind
of like moment with her man. And

662
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:34.920
then she goes outside to get water
to a river and she sees and the

663
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:38.400
river, she sees this the woman
and wife. And then finally I don't

664
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:43.880
know what happens. I don't I
can't remember, but she gets then somewhere

665
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:49.559
around that time, either right then
or like right after Sabbata and her go

666
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:53.039
to this place for like this congregation, there was an ambush and Sabbata gets

667
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:58.880
shot and killed, yes, and
then she pregnant, gets injured, and

668
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:07.079
she's like her, I don't know
what's happening. But this creature thing is

669
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.519
where she's like aboarding the haven't miscarried, miscarrying the baby because she was,

670
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:20.199
and this thing gets close to her, yeah, and at that above her

671
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:22.480
at some point, Yeah, it's
like right above her. So at this

672
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:25.679
point she's like she's like, you
know, she's she's a she's a soldier

673
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:30.920
too, so she like grabs this
thing and almost manages to kill it.

674
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:38.159
And yeah, she it's like almost
like she's trying to do and she's grabbing

675
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:43.239
it and she almost manages to kill
it. But you know, a lot

676
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:47.719
of stuff happened. She loses the
baby, but she survives the gun wound.

677
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:55.559
So then she returns to her home
where she sees her daughter and stuff,

678
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:59.199
and and she tells her, Oh, like, we have some stuff

679
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:01.480
that is in the family that we're
going to have to fight. And then

680
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:08.679
you fast forward a bit and she
returns into Alejandra's dream and she's like,

681
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:12.719
I know how to kill this thing, and you have to get close to

682
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.159
dying. Yeah, in order I
forgot to say, yeah, I forgot

683
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:17.920
to say. That's how they learn
how they have to beat this thing.

684
00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:21.239
And when they come up with that
plan. So I'm so glad that you

685
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:22.719
yeah, because I was like,
wait, there's something this thing I forgot,

686
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:28.360
but yes, and that's how they
learned that. In order to even

687
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:35.559
get close to this thing, you
have to almost be right right a death

688
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:39.960
store to even keep your hands on
it, which is why then Alejandra is

689
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.360
like, I have to hurt myself
to do it. It has to think

690
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:47.119
that I'm I'm giving in, and
then she just shoves the thing inside of

691
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:52.840
her. Yeah. It was just
freaking crazy m hm. And then and

692
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:58.159
then she basically gives birth to this
thing at the end and then yes,

693
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.719
finally fully kills it. Because she
made it mortal, she gave birth to

694
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:07.480
it, like it wasn't just this
spiritual thing and became real real, Yeah,

695
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:13.440
like physically real, physically real,
and that ending was just amazing.

696
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:15.800
Do you, either of you have
anything to add before we get into the

697
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:21.280
discussion questions. I don't think so. I just had it some stuff I

698
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.039
did. I thought it didn't highlight
and I thought I just wrote random notes

699
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:27.199
on my phone. But I did
highlights some stuff. Oh cool, Yes,

700
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:31.920
I love highlights. So so let
me start from the beginning. I

701
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:39.840
highlighted when the creature is like horney
for trauma. Yeah, and it's like

702
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:50.039
talking about how hot the trauma is
for it's yeah. And then it says

703
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:53.639
that violence that would scar that it's
so hot for violence that would have scar

704
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:59.119
the psyche of generation after generation.
Yes. And there was this other part

705
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.280
that I came across, and I
missed the page because we were discussing something

706
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:05.159
else. But wasn't it looking about
Matthew? I wanted to stay too,

707
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:09.119
And I don't remember. I don't
know. Oh her father, Oh oh,

708
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.320
we didn't really talk about her father. I don't know. He really

709
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:15.079
doesn't matter much me. I feel
like she reconnected him, and that's good,

710
00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:21.400
but then she finds out that he's
also traumatized and has his own generational

711
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:24.800
trauma that he has to heal.
There was another thing that the creature said

712
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:34.599
that it was so fascinated by the
way death affected humans, Like the whole

713
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:39.400
thing got probably the it Probably they
just like loved the that they die,

714
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.960
that people feel, Yeah, and
then like how weak their bodies are and

715
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:49.280
stuff like that. I remember like
saying things like that, Yeah, damn,

716
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:51.920
what the fuck was I gonna say
about Matthew later? Or no,

717
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:53.440
my bad. I think it was
just about how Matthew is didn't like her

718
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:58.599
going back to therapy. I don't
know. There was something about he also

719
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:02.559
like didn't like that she had oh
yeah, anything that with her getting back

720
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:06.639
in touch with her culture and her
roots. He didn't like, Yeah,

721
00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:10.840
anything that would lead her to community
and and give her life. I did

722
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:15.719
highlight earlier on you know, when
she's having her horrible triggering breakdown in the

723
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:22.960
bathroom. For years she abandoned herself
to be a willing sacrifice to please everyone

724
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.280
around her, and now nothing existed
within her anymore. Even her own hand

725
00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:30.280
was not a hand at all,
but a blade she used to carve her

726
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:32.880
heart for anyone who asked for it. And I was just like, wow,

727
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.960
that is so when I read that. Oh yeah, and I'm like,

728
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:45.239
this is why people have got a
ba and have boundaries clear. How

729
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.000
can you learn that you need boundaries
if you don't know what they are?

730
00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:51.760
Yeah, it's like she didn't know
on so she was at her very breaking

731
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:53.920
point and she's like, oh,
I can't do this anymore, you know.

732
00:56:53.960 --> 00:57:00.480
And it made me think of our
own mother, who another it's a

733
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:04.400
trigger warning. Yeah, I highlighted
this because it made me think of her,

734
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:07.400
you know. And I remember at
one point she'd be like, oh,

735
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.559
I don't even buy myself new underwear
because everything I buy it for you

736
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.920
buy. And I felt that because
I do that, I do that myself.

737
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:20.559
We'll stop it. I'm trying.
I know this year have actually spoiled

738
00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:22.920
myself. I was like, you
know what, fuck them kids, I

739
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:30.960
need underwear. I thought you ever
gonna say something else the kids, I'm

740
00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:38.000
buying myself with coloring. But no, But it's so important and it's so

741
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:46.679
and it's so like ingrained culturally societally
for moms to give up everything like your

742
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:50.119
a mother first, and yeah,
you know your kids. You know,

743
00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:52.960
you should protect your kids, you
should care for your kids, but at

744
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:55.079
the end of the day, you're
your own person. And yeah, a

745
00:57:55.079 --> 00:58:00.440
lot of people get lost in parenthood, yeah, and forget who are and

746
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.800
it's so tough because it's like such
a huge responsibility. And that's what I'm

747
00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:07.480
saying about Alejandra. She never knew
who she was and then you throw in

748
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:14.519
parenthood and that's after kid, Like
not to give our whole mom's life story,

749
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:20.920
but it made me think of her, wasn't she also like didn't hand

750
00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:25.519
also go through parentification with her adopted
family, yeah, which also has a

751
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:31.000
whole other layer, like she never
had a childhood. Yeah. Yeah,

752
00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:36.880
And I mean it's and it's like
so true for generation after generation, right,

753
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:43.559
Like we see our mothers giving up
their whole persons to care for us,

754
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:45.519
right, and like what do we
learn about caring for ourselves? You

755
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:50.400
know? Yeah, not to sound
like a major cheese ball, but like

756
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:53.679
I'm so glad that I started first
podcasting with you, Carmen, and then

757
00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:58.480
you know all this and all that
I'm doing, because I think I was

758
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:02.039
like literally falling into the oh yeah, I've fallen into that because like,

759
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:07.000
yeah, it's so loud to cry
because I just thinking back, yeah,

760
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:09.639
well, and it made me think
of you MG two when you when you

761
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:13.599
said that Christina had reached out to
you to start spooky taels and you're like,

762
00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:15.199
I need adults to talk to.
No. I did, because it

763
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:20.599
was like mid pandemic and like my
my husband like works all the time,

764
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:23.239
like all the time, like twelve
to fourteen hour days, so by the

765
00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:29.159
time he gets home, he might
see the kids or he sees the kids

766
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:32.719
for an hour, and in the
pandemic at bedtime and bed time, so

767
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:37.159
I did. I had no community
I had. I mean I talked to

768
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:38.639
my parents, but it's like your
parents, I'm come on me too,

769
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:45.360
the same things. It's and it
was like I had during the pandemic.

770
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:49.480
I was just completely I mean obviously
everybody was, but a completely more isolated

771
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.440
because at least when my kids went
to school, I think it thrust a

772
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:57.679
lot of us who maybe went out
to I don't know, work and sat

773
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:02.360
people there. If that if that
into a deeper isolation, and so that's

774
01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:06.280
why I'm like, yeah, yeah, because I already keep to myself and

775
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:09.159
I have like my my group of
friends I could count on both hands,

776
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.079
right, Like I don't talk to
a lot of people. So at that

777
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.639
point, like a lot of my
mom friends, I wasn't able to see

778
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:20.400
regularly like I did. And it
was just like oh my god. And

779
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.320
at once, at some things were
like pluses and minuses because I am very

780
01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:28.039
family oriented, but like there comes
a point in time where it's like I'm

781
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:31.039
just talking to children. I have
nobody to talk to. And it was

782
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:34.719
so hard, And I think it
was hard for a lot of moms,

783
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:38.679
especially if you were the parent who
had to stay home with the kids during

784
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:44.079
the pandemic, like if you were
lucky enough to still be working outside.

785
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.199
I think like that. I mean, as hard as it was, it

786
01:00:47.239 --> 01:00:52.519
was the only, yeah, only
communication you had with other people. Like

787
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:54.280
I remember back when I was a
pick me, because I used to be

788
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:57.400
a terrible pick me. It was
the worst when I was doing or me

789
01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:02.119
and all these married we would like
talk shit about the stay at home moms

790
01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:06.679
like they're not doing anything. I
will never say that shit again, Like

791
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:08.679
this is the hardest job, Like
what do you mean? And it's so

792
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:12.480
hard, and it's like this year
is going to be one of the hardest

793
01:01:12.519 --> 01:01:17.480
years for me and my kids because
again, like the crazy like shifts for

794
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:22.320
him. But like my kid is
also ADHD, so he needs extra support

795
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:27.719
upon extra support. And yeah,
so it's like the pandemic I think was

796
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.840
like one of the biggest things that
many people. If you didn't have an

797
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:34.760
experience like Alejandra, you probably had
it for the first time. Yeah,

798
01:01:34.840 --> 01:01:37.639
you saw it for the first time, whether it was with your mother or

799
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:43.199
like other women that you know.
But like you finally started hearing stories that

800
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:47.280
are similar to Alejandras where people are
just like losing themselves. And I was

801
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:52.079
reading interviews with v Castro and she
literally wrote it about herself, like she

802
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:58.559
was in that mind space that Alejandra
was like comment having those thoughts and that's

803
01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:00.960
why she wrote the book. Like
she she has said in interviews, she

804
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:07.159
is Alejandra like and yeah, it's
it's so common, but like a lot

805
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:08.559
of people don't talk about it.
But like you said, Carmen, like

806
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:13.039
we I was reading this too,
and I could see it and my mom

807
01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:15.920
and our mom oops I did the
Mexican kid thing. Yeah no, and

808
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:21.440
not only our mom, but like
I could see it probably every woman in

809
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:25.280
our family. Yeah, I saw
it myself because I've gone through similar situations

810
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:30.079
and again with my mom because she
my mom's like the oldest daughter of like

811
01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:36.559
seven kids, no eight kids.
Yeah, So I was like, Mom,

812
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:38.559
I'm so sorry, like you were, she was never a child and

813
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.519
I saw that. Like when I
saw that, I was like, speaking

814
01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:45.480
of that, have you guys ever
like come across those videos where it's like,

815
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:52.400
oh, teaching my mom how to
roller skate because she and I do

816
01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:53.800
that. I do that with my
mom. I was like, Mom,

817
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:59.000
you have to set boundaries with you
because my mom is like she's raised she

818
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:00.519
raised her own mom, you know
what I mean. So I was like,

819
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:05.440
Mom, you have to put boundaries
with my grandmother. You are not

820
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:09.280
her mother, she is your mother. And I also I've also like,

821
01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:12.159
you know, I do stuff like
that with her. I'm like, no,

822
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:15.920
you're joining us. This is I
guess we're painting with the kids,

823
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:17.320
but you're joining us too. And
I forced her to do stuff and she's

824
01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:19.679
like, I don't want to do
this. I'm like, you're going to

825
01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.960
be a child for like the next
hour you're doing it. Forget that.

826
01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:27.960
Those those vidos make me crist Do. I was always thinking like, man,

827
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.719
I'm gonna have to buy my mom
that like one of her toys that

828
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.760
she wanted as a kid one Christmas, and I'm gonna like, I'm gonna

829
01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:39.719
buy my eyes out, like no, no, okay, And should we

830
01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:49.880
get to this question questions now?
Oh wait, wait, wait I had

831
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:55.079
more stuff all you're just like I
was like trying to get through this.

832
01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:58.840
Oh no, no. So I
at first I didn't know what time I

833
01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:04.400
was leaving because I'm gonna go see
Carol g in La and I didn't know

834
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:08.000
what time we're leaving. But we're
not leaving until like four, so I

835
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.719
have time to pack it. Okay, yeah, okay. So another thing

836
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:16.239
I highlighted was on page seventeen,
where it's also about Alejandra, because this

837
01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:20.039
is you know, early on during
you know, her worst time, her

838
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:26.800
worst state, and so she's thinking
about how Matthew everything is Matthew's and she

839
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:30.320
has nothing. And so the part
I highlighted was that she did not even

840
01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:33.480
have her own last name, not
the last name of the children. And

841
01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:35.920
I was like, oh my god, because for her, I mean,

842
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:43.039
she wasn't adopted, She's adopted,
so her last name. It's not and

843
01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.639
then and I don't know because it
says not the last name of the children.

844
01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:48.239
So I don't know if she ended
up changing her last name to Matthew's

845
01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:51.679
or not. But if she had, that's also not really her last name,

846
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:56.199
you know. Yeah, so yeah, I had it that also.

847
01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:00.519
I just want to say. The
last thing I highlighted was something that said

848
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:03.039
or from flow to chapter where she
says, we must listen to the woman

849
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:06.840
who came before us. We changed
the future by unloading the sorrow sorrow of

850
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:12.519
the past. We sever the court
of generational curses. Some cords are meant

851
01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:15.360
to shrivel away to black and dead
flesh. They are are blood, but

852
01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:18.119
we are not them. We did
not have to accept it, none of

853
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:20.639
it. And I was like,
oh my god, yes, yes,

854
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:27.119
it brings me to the to the
point, it's in our culture you don't

855
01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:30.480
talk about your your sadness or what
you go through. You're supposed to be

856
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:35.559
quiet about and you're literally broken,
yeah, and you and and your rock

857
01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:39.519
bottom. That's when you're like,
what am I doing? Yeah? And

858
01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:45.000
but even then you're still supposed to
like swallow it and not talk about any

859
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.320
abuse that happened in the family.
You don't talk about, like the family

860
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:57.000
pedophile. You don't talk about like
what is it called Grandpa's second family.

861
01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:00.800
You don't talk about like a lot
of stuff you're suppos about your cousin hitting

862
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:04.559
his wife in front of everyone the
Christmas party, Yes, you don't talk

863
01:06:04.639 --> 01:06:10.800
about that. And and to even
go and get therapy, they label you

864
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:15.920
as a stas local, yeah,
you know, instead of like and I

865
01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:18.519
always have to remind my grandmother,
who has depression and stuff, was like,

866
01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:21.519
if you have a broken arm,
you go to the doctors. If

867
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:26.039
you feel broken spiritually, you go
to a doctor that can heal you.

868
01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:31.239
And and but that's still it's like
uh, swimming against the river because it's

869
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:38.920
so taboo and Hispanic Latin culture and
it's and that's why better but slowly Yeah,

870
01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:41.280
no, And I was gonna say
not to keep bringing our mother up,

871
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:45.320
Christina, but it makes me think
because like you said, MJ,

872
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:48.920
swimming, what did you say,
swimming upstream? Swimming upstream? Like I'm

873
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:51.679
like, I don't want to thinking
about fishes. I know, I don't

874
01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:58.679
remember the quote ever, but anyway, like for her to have saught therapy,

875
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:06.880
divorce, our father remarry yep,
and she's she's the first one and

876
01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:14.320
out of her siblings to get a
divorce and oh yeah yeah, and it

877
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:19.280
was for the better. And and
our grandparents knew what our father had to

878
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.519
put her through, and they still
were like, oh, stay with him,

879
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:27.199
Oh we love him. A lot
of that too, A lot of

880
01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:30.639
that happens like, oh, you
made a commitment, you married that person

881
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.239
through sickness and in health. And
I'm like, but it's like Flori said,

882
01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:39.159
no, we don't have to accept
these things exactly. Yeah, you

883
01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:42.159
had to when it was the man
who could only get a job and who

884
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:45.880
could only earn money. We don't
live in that society anymore. But and

885
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:50.920
also religion plays a huge part.
Yeah, it does. You can't go

886
01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:57.559
against your husband, can't get a
divorced because it's a sin. You can't

887
01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:02.119
even like have any more conections or
like romantic connections, even after you guys

888
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:04.559
separate, Like if you're going to
separate, you still have to be like,

889
01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:10.599
what is it called when you don't
have sex? What is it called

890
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:16.840
right or abstinent to? I don't
know which one is? Right before you

891
01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:21.800
Oh yeah, so it's like you
guys can like separate, but you guys

892
01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:27.920
can't have any romantic anything afterwards,
and then it only applies to the woman.

893
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:31.640
Yeah, it does because and nobody
would ever say anything again if like

894
01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:39.399
the man is has like baby MoMA's
left right and center, like they don't

895
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:44.680
care. But oh, if a
woman has like a child and she's married

896
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:46.239
to she's trying to like she's dating
your son, you'd be like, oh

897
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:54.840
that min it's yeah, there was
an episode about that. Yeah there was

898
01:08:55.039 --> 01:08:58.720
yeah, yeah, yeah, And
I've seen that happens so many times where

899
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:04.239
like our own son has like four
different baby mamas and he gets with a

900
01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:09.319
woman who only has one kid.
Yeah, and they're like, oh my

901
01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:12.640
god, she's this, she's that. I'm like, your beer son is

902
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.079
the manhood. He has four baby
mamas. Why are you worried about the

903
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:21.520
girl? Like you should be worried
about like how your grandchildren are in separate

904
01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:26.640
homes and not being unified by your
son regardless if they are in separate homes.

905
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:31.359
M But anyways, it's all that. That's we can get into the

906
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:34.640
questions. Yeah, yeah, question
which I think we've already kind of talked

907
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:40.399
about it. But I'll say what
the two replies that we got from the

908
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:43.680
newsletter. So the first question was
what did you think of the depiction of

909
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:48.279
generational trauma in the book? And
our spooky listener Marylyn wrote, I thought

910
01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:51.680
it was really good. It was
shown as sort of an outside source affecting

911
01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:57.840
the person, something that felt like
it was out of Alejandra's control. So

912
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:00.960
yeah, I mean we already they
talked a bunch about that, but yeah,

913
01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:04.039
that is true. I loved that. I loved how it was depicted.

914
01:10:04.359 --> 01:10:09.760
Yeah, I mean it was powerful
to make it like a its own

915
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:15.039
like physical you know, entity manifestation
mat Yeah. Yeah, I thought that

916
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:17.119
was amazing. And I like that
how it showed that you could defeat it.

917
01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:21.039
Yes, that that was the most
important part, Like, yes,

918
01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:25.720
it's there, but you could still
overcome it and defeat it. Yes.

919
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:30.319
Yeah. And then the next one, in the traditional legend of Layrona,

920
01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:32.720
we are told she kills her children
over a man. How did you feel

921
01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:38.119
about v Castro's rewriting of La Jorona? And Marilyn wrote, I kind of

922
01:10:38.119 --> 01:10:40.680
love it. They always make her
seem like a stupid and horrible woman.

923
01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:44.439
But when you think you're saving your
children from a horrible feature, then you

924
01:10:44.479 --> 01:10:47.159
feel desperate and would consider that,
especially if you have nowhere to run.

925
01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:51.760
Not saying it's right, but desperate
times desperate measures. Yeah. Also,

926
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:57.640
the ending of the la Jorona story
at the end got me crying, like

927
01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:00.840
she thought she was doing good,
but the story and did the other way

928
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:03.800
around, with Laona being the one
that died and it's looking for her kid,

929
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:09.399
her kids that survived. Yeah,
and then let me read the other

930
01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:14.800
one here. This is from Patricia. This version of the story was interesting.

931
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:17.279
I can imagine how hard it was
for women when they had no rights

932
01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:20.199
and were forced to pick a man
to take care of them. I think

933
01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:23.760
this goes along with the theme of
the book. With the theme through the

934
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:27.359
book the women are being haunted by
the choices they were forced to make,

935
01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:32.640
then passing it, passing on the
same pressure to the children. And I

936
01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:38.880
think we already also talked about our
answers to that question. Yes, yeah,

937
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:43.479
we always do this, but yeah, it's true. I love the

938
01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:46.520
rewriting of it because it really paints
a better picture. I think. Yeah,

939
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:50.119
and then who knows you know the
real story, because now at this

940
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:55.720
point it's like a game of telephone, right, Like, yeah, yeah,

941
01:11:56.439 --> 01:11:59.880
I like this version. I'm gonna
this one. I like this too.

942
01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:05.079
We mostly follow a hand, but
the book goes back through different generations.

943
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:09.840
How did you feel about the back
and forth? And Marilyn Rowe,

944
01:12:09.880 --> 01:12:15.319
I was down with the sickness.
It gave more insight into who her ancestors

945
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:18.920
were and what they went through with
the hunt, what the hunting did before

946
01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:23.479
her, and how the story plays
out. And I just love that she

947
01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:26.279
wrote I was down with the sick
I also like how like you see you

948
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:30.279
connect the dots to how it made
all the hunter who she is at that

949
01:12:30.439 --> 01:12:33.239
moment in time. You get you
get the whole, the whole picture,

950
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:36.760
the whole picture, literally the entire
thing. It made me wish that I

951
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:42.600
could have the same about you know, our maternal ancestors, Like yeah,

952
01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:46.039
like that we couldn't know, but
it's just been so yeah, there's no

953
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:49.640
way of knowing, No, at
least I mean for us, as some

954
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:57.680
people could go and find out,
but let us' Is it safe to assume

955
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.199
we all hate Matthew? He seemed
to show who he was from the beginning.

956
01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:04.119
Why do you think Alejandra ignored the
red flags? Do you agree with

957
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:10.560
their choices. Marilyn wrote, yes, we hate Matthew. She chose the

958
01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:14.319
safest option, and it's not uncommon
to be with someone you don't really love

959
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:17.279
in order to be stable. She
knew he could provide and he was into

960
01:13:17.319 --> 01:13:20.039
her, so she ran with it. I don't really agree with it,

961
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:24.920
but being adopted into a not great
family and then trying to escape that,

962
01:13:25.199 --> 01:13:29.239
it's a situation that's not new.
And also like she might have not known

963
01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:33.239
what love is and would only assume
that something better might be what love is.

964
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:38.760
But like when you're an abusive when
you grow up in an abusive household,

965
01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:43.159
you connect love with a lot of
abusive behavior. Yeah, when it's

966
01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:47.119
not that and you don't know what
healthy love is. Yep. Yeah.

967
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:51.520
And then A Patricia wrote yes,
as in yes we all hate Matthew.

968
01:13:53.880 --> 01:13:57.319
It felt like Alejandra wanted to have
a normal family and with Matthew that would

969
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:00.199
be a sure thing to her.
I think it's really coming from a first

970
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:05.520
generation Mexican American family. You're also
looking for the version of the perfect American

971
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:10.359
family and forget to ask yourself what
you really want or what's best for you.

972
01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:14.199
The other factor is that Handra didn't
have any family that she could talk

973
01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:17.039
about red flags with. Yeah.
Yeah, and I completely agree, Like

974
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:23.560
I completely understand how she got ended
up with Matthew and stayed. Yeah,

975
01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:27.760
and it's so because it does talk
about how they were as a dating couple

976
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:31.039
and how he, like I guess, won her over, and the little

977
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.920
thing she overlooks in the beginning,
which I think anybody could do. I

978
01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:42.159
think it's normal to do that,
and then really how she stayed throughout time

979
01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:46.000
too, And there's also like a
sunken cost fallacy for a lot of people

980
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:49.600
about Oh, I mean I've been
doing this for this long. Yeah.

981
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:57.680
And it also made me think about
how what traditional values are like a double

982
01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:02.399
edged sword kind of like, yeah
know women, some women, not me,

983
01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:10.319
but some women feel like they like
they need to follow those traditional roles.

984
01:15:10.439 --> 01:15:15.079
Yeah. But I mean there's a
reason that feminism is a thing.

985
01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:21.840
There's a reason that women where these
roles are even more ingrained still fight for

986
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:27.800
you know, liberation, Like there's
a reason for all those things. Yeah,

987
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:31.359
it's it never I mean it could
have worked, sure, but I

988
01:15:31.399 --> 01:15:36.239
don't know. Kind of I'm just
saying that to be nice, not really,

989
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:41.479
because I mean, we have all
this history showing men abused to power

990
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:45.760
men control women. The more traditional
you know, roles are followed, and

991
01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:49.399
so I mean, yeah, that's
why I said some women and and for

992
01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:55.760
those women it's a double one short
because they feel like it's the right thing,

993
01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:58.399
but at the end of the day, they're nonun control of their own

994
01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:01.520
lives, you know. Yep,
yeah, I can't say it better than

995
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:05.279
that. Yeah, what would you
rate this book? Patricia bro It was

996
01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:10.399
really good. I would give a
ten out of ten pizza pies, and

997
01:16:10.399 --> 01:16:15.199
then Maryland said he out of ten
ghosts, and then let me check out.

998
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:17.359
I don't think our Instagram had any
They just have comments about how people

999
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:23.960
really liked the book, but nobody
answered the questions on Instagram, which is

1000
01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:29.119
fine. We know people read it. Let's see what did anyone. Yeah,

1001
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:30.640
this book was so good. I
loved it. Can't wait to see

1002
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:33.039
what the next book is. This
one was so good. So yeah,

1003
01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:36.560
yeah, the Sun was good.
Yeah, what would you guys? Read

1004
01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:43.880
it? Ten out of ten?
What? Ten out of ten crystal balls,

1005
01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:54.840
Karmen, ten out of ten,
creatures, ten out of ten blood

1006
01:16:54.840 --> 01:17:00.880
sucking demons? Actually, no,
I really liked it. I really liked

1007
01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:02.079
it. It was, it was, it was. It's so far my

1008
01:17:02.119 --> 01:17:05.359
favorite book this year. But we'll
I guess, we still have a few

1009
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:10.680
books to read, so we'll see. We'll see if it gets knocked from

1010
01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:14.920
its number one spot. I have
a feeling vampires of that, I know.

1011
01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:18.560
I have a feeling it's gonna do
it. I love her like I

1012
01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:25.640
don't think I've read a better book
decade than Oh my god, I forgot

1013
01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:30.039
the book, this book. Yes, oh my god, what a fan

1014
01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:35.079
on me, I know. And
then overall final thoughts, Marilyn wrote,

1015
01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:39.079
it was dope. I've recommended it
to a few people, especially people I

1016
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:45.279
know going through shit. And then
picture Hiro I enjoyed the book was scary,

1017
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:49.239
especially when she would scare the kids. And then she said she also

1018
01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:54.640
loved how La Rona had a different
backstory. Yeah, and yeah again,

1019
01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:59.520
my overall final thoughts are like amazing
book. The by far like one of

1020
01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:05.000
the best pictions of generational trauma and
horror that I'm Yeah, I have seen

1021
01:18:05.079 --> 01:18:10.840
like uh not, what is it
when someone doesn't like something like a bad

1022
01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:15.920
word? Yeah, I've seen like
bad reviews about there's a different where I

1023
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:18.760
was thinking of, But I don't
remember haters. I don't know. Yeah,

1024
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:23.600
but I've seen people say like the
writing is flat, like nobody talks

1025
01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:26.960
like this. Alejandra is only the
only fleshed out character, but I think

1026
01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:31.640
we're seeing everything from character. Of
course she has the main character energy.

1027
01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:35.680
Yeah. Yeah, And they're like, especially Matthew, nobody talks like that.

1028
01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:43.000
But it's like, please, this
is the most realistic, like like,

1029
01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:46.640
okay, I can't even talk.
How lucky for them to never actually

1030
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:50.880
meet someone like Matthew, because I've
met a few Matthews. I think we

1031
01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:55.279
all have, and they do talk
like that, and they do behave like

1032
01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:58.840
that. Yeah, like especially when
he says what is where is it?

1033
01:18:58.960 --> 01:19:01.000
I forgot it's in the bat and
he's like, this is what you wanted?

1034
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:08.399
Yes, Oh my god, I'm
sorry. Men sounks like this all

1035
01:19:08.439 --> 01:19:12.680
the time, all the time.
Actually, if you look up a man,

1036
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:15.279
it'll say Matthew and Journey. I
was gonna say, if anything,

1037
01:19:15.319 --> 01:19:18.720
I feel like every man has a
Matthew inside of themselves that they need to

1038
01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:25.680
fight every day to not be like
because falls like fight your Matthew. Guys,

1039
01:19:26.319 --> 01:19:35.479
Oh my god, you're in Matthew. But yeah, I mean like

1040
01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:39.279
overall, I really enjoyed the book. Yeah, and I don't understand the

1041
01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:42.760
fighting comments whatever. I don't know. Yeah, No, I mean I

1042
01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:45.279
feel like we could go on and
on and on to talking about this book

1043
01:19:45.319 --> 01:19:49.600
because there's so much that we still
didn't even like we're like covered the surface.

1044
01:19:50.479 --> 01:19:56.039
Yeah yeah, like definitely recommend it, but I mean, anything else

1045
01:19:56.119 --> 01:20:00.279
before we end this, because now
it's an hour thing, that is it?

1046
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:05.319
And like if I guess if anybody
reads this book after this episode comes

1047
01:20:05.319 --> 01:20:09.760
out, we want your opinions like
that we can keep talking about it.

1048
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:13.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that we're

1049
01:20:13.640 --> 01:20:16.920
doing this because like who others?
Whose are we going to talk about books

1050
01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:20.399
with for an hour and a half. Oh and then like I love the

1051
01:20:20.439 --> 01:20:28.079
cover too, oh yeah, Like
and then you see the creature saying right

1052
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:34.199
inside of like who I'm guessing is
the representation that I don't even have the

1053
01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:36.960
book, I just have the picture
of it. But I like the cover

1054
01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:41.920
because it's like this creature is inside
her, which is like the generational trauma.

1055
01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:45.720
So it's like a very beautiful artistic
itsentation of what she's going through.

1056
01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:49.479
Yeah, I love it. I
can't believe you missed it, kermen.

1057
01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:53.000
Yeah, and now that I look
at it, so obvious, but I

1058
01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:55.760
just like, I think I was
so like like I would just look at

1059
01:20:55.760 --> 01:21:00.439
the flowers and how pretty they are, and yeah, oh man, this

1060
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:03.720
was so fun. Ye, but
yeah, I guess before we go.

1061
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:09.760
Our next book is Silver Nitrate by
Silvia Moreno Garcia. If you want to

1062
01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:12.720
join the book club, keep along
with the updates on where we are on

1063
01:21:12.760 --> 01:21:15.800
the book, get the discussion questions
and have time to answer them before we

1064
01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:18.920
record so that we can include your
answers. You can sign up for the

1065
01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.880
newsletter. It's on substack. You'll
get an email, but you can also

1066
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:26.000
just fee the whole thing on substack
itself. The link is in the show

1067
01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:29.319
notes. There's also a bookshop,
a link that I keep for getting to

1068
01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:32.039
put in the show note. If
you buy the book there, then we

1069
01:21:32.119 --> 01:21:34.439
get a little bit, a little
bit of sense, a little bit of

1070
01:21:34.479 --> 01:21:40.359
coins. So if you don't have
a Silver Nitrate, or if you want

1071
01:21:40.359 --> 01:21:44.159
to get Vampires of a Norte if
you haven't gotten it, that's also on

1072
01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:48.560
our list. Daniell do that and
yeah, I think that brings us to

1073
01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:54.560
the end. Thanks so much.
Both of you for talking about the book

1074
01:21:54.600 --> 01:21:57.520
with me. I mean it was
main pleasure. It was a good discussion.

1075
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:08.960
And stay a spooky We'll catch everyone
next time. Bye bye. Spooky

1076
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:14.199
Tails is hosted by Christina and MJ, produced and edited by Christina. Everything

1077
01:22:14.359 --> 01:22:18.760
is written and researched by Christina MJ
and with the help of Dawn shout Out

1078
01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:23.720
Down. Thank you so much for
your help. If you love what you

1079
01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:26.960
here, consider leaving us a five
star review. If you don't, then

1080
01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:30.119
do not leave us anything please.
If we want short spooky stories, follow

1081
01:22:30.239 --> 01:22:33.840
us on TikTok at spooky tails,
where you can also find some of the

1082
01:22:33.880 --> 01:22:38.800
same videos posted on Instagram and that
is at spooky Tails. Everything is linked

1083
01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:43.119
in the show notes. If you
want bonus episodes, stickers, exclusive stickers,

1084
01:22:43.199 --> 01:22:46.159
might I add, then consider joining
our patreon go over to patreon dot

1085
01:22:46.159 --> 01:22:53.239
com slash spooky Tails. There are
over at least fifteen bonus episodes right now,

1086
01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:57.479
and we do at least one a
month, sometimes two, depending on

1087
01:22:57.520 --> 01:23:02.119
how we are feeling. If you
want to who support the podcast and don't

1088
01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:05.319
or can't or don't want to,
that's fine, join the patreon. Then

1089
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:11.560
consider getting some merch We have an
adorable beanie that I love. I absolutely

1090
01:23:11.720 --> 01:23:15.640
adore it. It's so comfy,
it's warm, it has spooky and old

1091
01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:18.680
English letters. There's also a baseball
hat in the same way as spooky and

1092
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.720
old English letters, and that's what
I wear in the summers. They're both

1093
01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:26.199
awesome hats. And there's other things
in there, like the no Mamas shirts,

1094
01:23:26.239 --> 01:23:29.800
which is a very popular shirt.
If you like history, check out

1095
01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:33.960
my other podcast, Istoria's Unknown,
hosted with the unofficial official guest co host

1096
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:38.079
of a Spooky Tales, Carmen,
And if you like novelast, check out

1097
01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:43.119
Novelascocao, which Carmen and I also
host together. And yeah, we love

1098
01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:48.800
every single listen every single spooky Thank
you so much, Stay a spooky