March 21, 2025

The Case of Abby Hernandez

The Case of Abby Hernandez

Just days before her 15th birthday, she went missing. She was walking home from school. 

On today's episode, Cristina tells Carmen about the case of Abby Hernandez. Then, they end with spooky recommendations. 

If you have a spooky story to share,...

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Just days before her 15th birthday, she went missing. She was walking home from school.

On today's episode, Cristina tells Carmen about the case of Abby Hernandez. Then, they end with spooky recommendations.

If you have a spooky story to share, email Espookytales@gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at the Espooky Hot Line (360)836-4486. You can also submit it on Discord!

Join the Espooky Tales Book Club for Busy People: https://substack.com/@espooky?utm_source=profile-page

Listen to Carmen and Cristina's other podcast Historias Unknown

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Thank you for listening!

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WEBVTT

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Hello, Hello, This is Christina from the feature. Because we

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recorded this in the past. As I said last week,

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this was supposed to be together with last week's episode,

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but we split it up in order to give ourselves

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time to get back into researching and recording after we

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went to Guadalajara to go see our Agilita and celebrate

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her birthday with our entire family. So that is why

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we split last week's episode. Also, at some point in

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the episode, you hear me say American Pie by Tom

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Petty instead of American Girl by Tom Petty, and I

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met American girl, not American Pie. I know that's not

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a song. All right, enjoy the episode and we'll be

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back next week. Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and

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this is another episode of Speaky Tales podcast for all

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things Espoogye, Andre, Grime, and America. Before I start the case,

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just trigger warning for rape that is part of this

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and also involves a minor And with that, feel free

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to skip to speak your recommendations so we don't want

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to hear that. But today I'm sharing the case of

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Abby at Nandez. So in twenty thirteen, just before turning

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fifteen high school freshman, Abby was walking home from school

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when she vanished, and like, no one knew what happened

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to her. So she grew up with her mom and

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sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. She grew up with

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her mom and sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. It's

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a small toursy town, considered super safe. In fact, the

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whole state is in the list as one of the

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safest states in the US. Wow, back then it was true.

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Today it's still up there in those like statistics. So yeah,

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people moved there because it's considered safe. That's probably one

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of the reasons why Senya at Nandez Abby's mom moved

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there after her divorce, because now she's a single working parent.

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She's got two daughters to raise, right Yeah, and she

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worked long hours as a nurse, so this seemed like

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the perfect place to raise Abbi and Sarah. And Abby

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was considered a very nice teen, always positive, always very

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friendly with everyone. She talked to everyone as if they

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were friends with her already. She studied German and robotics

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as a freshman, which is crazy to me. Robotics, that's wild. Yeah.

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She was super athletic, into sports and she had a

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boyfriend Jimmy. They loved each other as much as high

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school sweethearts, can you know. Yeah, And things were great

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for her and her family until October nine, twenty thirteen.

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Abby had not arrived home from school yet, and Senya,

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her mom, started getting worried. But she was like, you

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know what, maybe she's with friends at school still, So

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she drove up there to look for her. But when

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she got there, the librarian told her that she had

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already left. She saw Abby leaving, so now she's even

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more worried. She gets back home, i'd be still not there.

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She then calls the hospital, the local hospital, to see

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if she checked in there, and maybe she got her

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on the way home, and she's just there. She hasn't

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checked in, but no, she's not there either. Finally, at

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seven pm that night, it was too long for her,

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and Senya went to file a missing person's report. And

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she did not for one second think that Abby ran away.

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It wasn't like her. Plus, they were getting ready to

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celebrate her fifteenth birthday in like four days, so it

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just didn't seem like she would run away at all.

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And luckily, the search did happen very quickly. Local police

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and FBI got involved fast. They went door to door

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looking for her, and again she disappeared three days before

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before her fifteenth birthday party. So instead of holding a

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party for her, the party that they were already planning,

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they ended up doing a vigil for her. A lot

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of people attended in the community. Oh my god, that's

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so sad it is. Can you imagine? It's terrible? And

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just within weeks there were over five hundred tips called

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into the hotline that investigators had set up, but there

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were no concrete leads at all, and all they had

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is the following information. Abby left school at two twenty

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nine pm. She walked through the field hockey Field, down

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Eagle's Way and into a power line trail near the school.

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She was seen on that power trail power line trail

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between two thirty and two thirty five pm. She sent Jimmy,

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her boyfriend, a heart emoji at two fifty three pm

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as she walked, and he was on the bus. Fifteen

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ish minutes later, at three oh seven, her phone signal

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disappears a lost signal at the cell tower on the

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west side of Cranmore Mountain. And that's all they had

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to go on, like nothing else but they believe that

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that window of time between two fifty three and three

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oh seven is where something went wrong, something happened to her.

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They didn't treat this like, oh no, she just went missing. Immediately,

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they were like, she was probably taken. So, you know,

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they did their jobs, because there's so many of these

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cases where they're like, ah, she ran away, and they

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don't do their jobs. But here they led into action,

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which Sily is like rare. Yeah. So they started questioning

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family and friends, which didn't give them leads. It just

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showed them how close she was to everyone. And one

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month went by, still nothing the media on her. The

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reporting started dying down. Meanwhile, her mom and sister fell

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into despair, still looking for her, putting up signs everywhere.

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They're still going door to door and all this chaos

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of trying to find her, Senya ignore daily tasks and

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things were piling up in the house, including the mail,

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because that's just like one of the last things you open,

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I feel, yeah, even like on a regular name, you know, imagine, Yeah,

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on top of that, dealing with your daughter being missing,

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like exactly the last function amount. Yeah. Yeah, So she

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went for she went weeks without checking her mail, and

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her pile grew larger, and in that pile there was

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a letter from Abby. What Yeah. The letter read the following,

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Dear Mom, I miss you and I love you so

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much more than you could imagine. I'm sorry I did this.

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I've seen the newspapers and TV news, and to answer

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your questions, yes, I'm alive, I'm safe, and I'm healthy.

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I really miss you, mom, but I won't tell you

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where I am. I love you so much. Please stay

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strong for me. I'm staying strong for you. I've come

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to realize that, along with love and courage, hope can

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speak louder than fear. Please don't lose hope. Hang in

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there for me. Mom. I had a dream where I

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came home and I gave you the biggest hug ever.

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I don't know if it matters, but I like to

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think that it does. Please don't forget that I love you.

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Please give Sarah a big hug for me, and tell

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her that I love and miss her so much. I

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pray that all your hopes and dreams come true. Love Abby,

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Oh my god? And what this really her? That was

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the question of the hour? Really. The letter was postmarked

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October twelfth, twenty thirteen, and again she wasn't missing October ninth, okay,

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but Senya Hernandez her mom didn't see it until November

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six wow, because again her mail was piling up. Yeah.

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When she first saw the letter and it said dear mom,

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she was excited because she's like, oh, it'll lead us

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to her or something, you know. But after she read it,

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it felt wrong. She's like, yeah, this is her handwriting,

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but doesn't feel like anything she would ever say. She's

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been forced to say something maybe mm hmmm. Yeah, and

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she didn't think first. She was like, yes, it's her handwriting,

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but I don't think these are her words, Like it

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sounds like someone else is saying this. And Sanya handed

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this over to investigators who confirmed by DNA on left

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on the paper that it did belong to Abby, So

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she did write the letter, and they held on to

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the letter, having possession of the letter for a month

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before giving this to the media, like telling them, yeah,

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we received the letter, because you know, big cases like this,

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I have to like keep people updated. So they held

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onto the information for one month because they were worried

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that if this was a letter by her and she

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sent it a secret from whoever was keeping her. If

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they gave out the information that they received the letter

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for her from her, it could put her in danger.

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So they didn't say anything for one month. Then they

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finally did report this and I when I read this,

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so the media then reporters they all were like, well

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news ankers and like all those places, They're like, well,

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this is is this even a missing person's case? Was

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she even taken? Or is this a runaway And despite

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investigators confirming there belief that they are treating this as

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someone who was abducted, not a runaway case, media and

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local residents started turning their turning on the family. Oh wow,

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they were angry and they believed that the letter was

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a confession from a runaway teen girl. Okay, but also

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like why get angry about that? If this isn't a

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runaway girl, then clearly like something is going on in

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the home that she's running away from. So if that

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was the case, like I would still feel concerned for

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this team, you know what I mean, even if it's like,

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oh I don't want to follow the rules or okay, well,

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how can we work with this family to for them

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to live with each other? Because anytime, even if it's

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a teen running away. Like that's sad still, you know,

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like that's still concerned, right, But people don't. People They

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think like teenagers are adults, you know. Yeah, No, they're little.

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They're babies in them in the scheme of a lifetime

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of a person, Yeah, you're a baby, Like, yeah, you're

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a baby until you're thirty, you know. I'm so you're

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a baby. You're still baby. We're babies. Yeah. So yeah,

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people were angry and they were like, she's wasting time

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and resources because this was treated like a kidnap victim

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when she's clearly a runaway. Yeah, and people were calling

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for the family to pay back the money that the

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Conway Police Department and the FBI spent, Like this kid

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who fucking hooh bitch. I hate when they do that shit.

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That reminds me of that other case where people were

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accusing I don't remember names as always, but they were

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accusing the They were accusing the victim who was kidnapped.

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Basically it was a woman. It was an adult woman,

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but she was kidnapped with her husband. Well, they somebody

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broke into their apartment. They held them a hostage or whatever,

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they taped them up, couldn'tain anything, and then they left

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him tied up, and then they took her and then

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they blamed him for it. Yeah, so they first they

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thought it was him, even though he had nothing to

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do with it. And then when she came back, they

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accused her of faking the whole thing, like gone Girl,

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because Gone Girl had just come out. Yeah, and I'm like,

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these people have been traumatized and you're over here, and

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even and the police, the law enforcement came out and

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they're like, she owes us money this and that. I'm like,

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who fucking cares? Like, I don't care how much money

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is to waste it on them anyway. Yeah, if anything, like,

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you should be doing this for free, if anything, you

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should come out directly out of your patrick because it

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doesn't exactly. So, Yeah, people were calling for that, for

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that money to be give back, and that is so

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much of books for real. I can't believe that. No,

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And even in the midst of all this hatred, they

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were suddenly getting online. They did not waiver in their

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belief that she was being health captive and she needed

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to be rescued. And they were right. This was supposed

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to be their community, and they were online saying shit

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like sounds like a runaway punk this. Okay, this has

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been fishy from the beginning. Oh I can't stand people. Yeah,

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even rumors in her former school started to spread. Kids

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were saying that she ran away because she was pregnant,

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and her sister and bff her Bessie went to the

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school and they were appalled at the rumors. Oh my god,

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I would started throwing hands at the school and yeah,

215
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I'm gott in so much trouble because every day it

216
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would have been fisty cuffs. I would fighting like growing

217
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:02.240
up because no, you're not going to say this ship

218
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while my sister is literally finding for her life somewhere,

219
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you know. Yeah, but that just goes to show like

220
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people love to gossip, and it's like this is why,

221
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like when something is announced that's something like this is happening,

222
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Like I don't go online saying oh this probably happened,

223
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Oh this probably happened, like it's it's messed up. Yeah.

224
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They people engage with these kind of extremely sensitive and

225
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difficult topics. They engage with them like they're like they're

226
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:33.519
like a circus show. I'm nicking of the when the

227
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emberor heard and not to bring everything back to emberhard.

228
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But we always talking about But yeah, I think of

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the how people were acting during the Ember Herd and

230
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johny Depp trial, and I remember when it is over

231
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and Billy Saria and caught a lot of flak rightfully

232
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so about her saying like, oh what what am I

233
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going to watch now? Like and uh, somebody I remember

234
00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:00.960
at work they were talking about this too, like it

235
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.919
was like entertainment. And I'm like, these are people's lives

236
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:12.480
where toxicity, dysfunction, and abuse took place. Yeah, when they don't,

237
00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.799
it sounds like we're reaching a little bit because at

238
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the end of the day, we do talk about your crime.

239
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But I feel like we're sharing either cases where there's

240
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like injustices, like you know when we talked about the

241
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.200
activist in Mexico or here. I think by the end

242
00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.840
of it, you'll see why this case is like so

243
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important to learn about. Yeah, and not everyone is doing that.

244
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.440
But again, like you know, you're free to consume whatever

245
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you want, right, I'm like, go ahead, Yeah, I feel

246
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.279
like to listen to an episode on something is not

247
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the same thing as tuning into a trial every day

248
00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:50.879
at eating popcorn while you're watching the trial. Yeah, like

249
00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.200
while it's actively going on, treating it like it's a

250
00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:59.399
fictional movie. You know, that is weird ass behavior. Yeah,

251
00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:02.559
that is weird to me too. But if you know,

252
00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.440
if that's your thing, maybe just don't be public about it,

253
00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:10.159
or maybe just don't know really truly. So again, luckily

254
00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:14.960
this time around for Abby's case, law enforcement was more

255
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.919
than incompetent, because again we do see cases where they're

256
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.200
not they're doing the opposite of working there, I don't know,

257
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.639
doing nothing. So here they were like, no, the public

258
00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:30.519
is wrong here. We know Abby didn't run away, and

259
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:32.519
they were like, she didn't take anything with her when

260
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.120
she went missing. All she had was your school backpack,

261
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.039
Like and it was just her school backpack. She didn't

262
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.360
have clothes in there, Like, this isn't a runaway, yeah,

263
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.120
because runaways take things with them, like usually right, they'll have,

264
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.159
you know, change of clothes, something. She had nothing with

265
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.919
her and nothing poigned to this. So they're like, no,

266
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.399
this is a clear case of abduction, and they continue

267
00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.519
to treat it that way, and that is excellent because

268
00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.000
again it's not always the case. But sadly, even though

269
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.399
they're working hard, they're not getting any nine months go by,

270
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.279
the case is cold. They have no idea where to

271
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:11.240
move from here until July twenty, twenty fourteen, when Abby

272
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:14.799
walked home, opened the door to her house and said, mom,

273
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and she was like, Abby, do what this is? Like

274
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.039
the case I was talking about? I know, let me

275
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:24.720
ask how people reacted when she came back. Actually, no,

276
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.600
oh okay, it was good. It was good. So she

277
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.679
was like Abby, asking, like, is that really her? There's

278
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:32.559
no way. But then they run to each other. They

279
00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.519
hug each other for like the longest times. It's beautiful.

280
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.080
But like, what happened? Yeah? Has she Yeah, I'm gonna

281
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tell you right now. So that day, on October ninth,

282
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:47.320
twenty thirteen, Abby decided to walk home instead of taking

283
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.120
the bus, which is normal. Sometimes she walked, sometimes she

284
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.480
took the bus. It was not abnormal for her to

285
00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.720
choose to walk instead. She did either or on whatever

286
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.960
a randy given day. Yes, and she had been wearing

287
00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.120
a brand new pair of boot that was an early

288
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.960
birthday present to her. And yeah, why not walk in

289
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.879
her walking boots? You know, boots were made for walking. Yeah,

290
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.000
I was just gonna see that, I know. But the

291
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.519
boots were not broken. In yet and so as she walked,

292
00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.320
her feet were really hurting and blistering, and she was like,

293
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.080
I hope they were in Doc Martins. I know you

294
00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.799
suffered through those. Let me just go on a real

295
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:27.799
side journey about how my feet or tore the fuck

296
00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.159
up by a pair of Doc Martins. And I love

297
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.120
these shoes, Okay, their platform I think they're called the

298
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:39.559
jade platforms. Maybe burgundy color. Beautiful, beautiful shoes, beautiful. Anyway,

299
00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.399
I made the mistake runing into a concert and I

300
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:43.440
was like, well, I am I going to be walking.

301
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.080
I'm just going to stand there, but I'd take into

302
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.399
consideration that parking would be for and like walking the

303
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.279
stairs and all that. Right, I was just like standing

304
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.240
is tiring on the feet too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

305
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:56.559
I didn't think about any of that. I just thought

306
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.639
about my outfit. And I was wearing black highway pants

307
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.480
and it's like cute, like burgundy, like lace, like crop

308
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:08.200
top type of situation with my matching shoes oversa damn jacket. Cute, right,

309
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.079
sounds cute. And my friend sees me, she's like, are

310
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:13.839
you sure you're rained? Like you want to wear the shoes,

311
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.960
And I was like yeah, She's like seriously, And I

312
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:21.599
was like, yeah and whatever. Getting there wasn't bad, but

313
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:27.119
then walking out, it was raining so stormy actually, and

314
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.599
so my socks got wet and I think it was

315
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.599
like the friction of my wet sauce against the boot

316
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.680
scraping the back of my foot. I don't know what

317
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.680
you call that, but disgusting and truly disgusting. When I

318
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.880
finally took my socks off, painful as hell. I couldn't

319
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:46.400
even take a step without feeling like my the cut

320
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:48.599
blisters I had, I couldn't take a step with that

321
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.960
feeling like it was opening. Yeah. And then let me

322
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.799
tell you, oh, go on, Oh, I should say I

323
00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.759
couldn't walk because of the disgusting feeling. I couldn't wear shoes. Yeah,

324
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.759
And so I was like, I'm walking from home. I

325
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.279
wore my slippers to the office just to get my stuff,

326
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.680
and then I was like, I'm not coming in until

327
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.200
I can't wear shoes again. No, I don't blame you.

328
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.240
I've seen some nasty blisters as a as a former

329
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.519
medic in the army. Oh, I'm sure it was one

330
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:17.160
of the things that fucked people up the most, especially

331
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.759
these long Assbrooke marches, I saw some wizzies. They are

332
00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:24.000
no joke, like they really aren't. Blisters, literally are no joke,

333
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:26.759
like I would I completely understand that. She did not

334
00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:31.680
want to walk anymore, so her feet were getting destroyed

335
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.880
by these new boots. They weren't broken again. So when

336
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.960
a car pulled over asking if she wanted to ride,

337
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:42.480
oh no, she agreed because of her blisters. Plus she thought,

338
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.920
this is literally such a safe city. It's nothing happens here.

339
00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:51.599
The person seemed nice. Everyone was so nice in Conway,

340
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.720
you know. So she was like, yeah, I would like

341
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.599
a ride, and so as they drove, then she started

342
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.079
getting like an uneasy feeling. So she didn't tell the

343
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.119
man her address and asked if he could drop her

344
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.799
off at a nearby restaurant. Smart yeah, but then he

345
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.319
was like, no, I need to make a step first,

346
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.279
and then he went to a home depot. She was like, actually,

347
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.359
I can walk from here. I'm not far from here.

348
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:15.319
She was not close to her house anymore. But she's like, no,

349
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:19.559
I need to get out right, And so she was like,

350
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:21.240
I'm just going to go home from here, like I'll

351
00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.440
get out here, no worry, Like thanks for the ride.

352
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.759
But when she said this, he pulled out a gun. No,

353
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:30.519
oh my god. Yeah, and he told her if you

354
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.119
try to scream or to try to escape, or make

355
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.759
any effort to escape, there will be consequences. And he

356
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.960
told her he could blow her brains down right now

357
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.359
if he wanted, or he could slit her throat if

358
00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:44.559
he wanted to. Then he grabbed a baseball hat that

359
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:46.119
he had, he put it on her. He put a

360
00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.799
jacket on her to like disguise her, and he handcuffed her.

361
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:53.359
All of this, he was just strolling for a victim.

362
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.480
It seems that way, like he was ready. Yeah, And

363
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.319
then he told her bear with me. I'm having a

364
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.119
hard time in my life. I mean, these kind of

365
00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:05.359
things happen. There's like a trigger. Yeah. Yeah. So she

366
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.880
told him she didn't judge him for what he was

367
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.160
doing because she realized, like, I need to get him

368
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.000
to trust me if I want to stay alive. God,

369
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:19.440
imagine that intuition and the smart Yeah. Yeah. She was

370
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:21.920
also hoping her phone was being tracked at this point

371
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:23.440
because she still had it on her, but then he

372
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.880
took it and broke it. So this is where they

373
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:31.400
lost signal. This is where that happened, and he drove

374
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.279
on and she had her head down the whole time

375
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.079
because he had a gun like pointed to her the

376
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:38.519
whole time. As he drove. She would occasionally try and

377
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:40.480
peek out the window and she could see they were

378
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.079
leaving Conway and heading into the mountains. And she could

379
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.359
tell he was a winning traffic lights because they have

380
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.839
cameras on them. So he took these back roads into

381
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.400
this rural wooded area thirty miles north of Conway to

382
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.119
his home. And in the home she recalls passing by

383
00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:59.680
like these don't tread on me flags? Oh my god,

384
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.079
of course, right, always one of them, you know what

385
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:05.279
I mean? No, because yeah, he put her in a

386
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.400
small storage shed on his property, which was a mobile

387
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.759
home and I can't get over that. Don't try it

388
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.319
on me, but I'll tread all over your rights. Oh yeah,

389
00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.160
that's going to train on you as a human being. Yeah.

390
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.559
Of course. He had a mobile home on a property

391
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:23.680
that was four Brookside Drive in Gorham, New Hampshire, and

392
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.720
all over there were American flags, guns. He even had

393
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.119
a framed copy of the US Constitution on the wall.

394
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.160
What the fuck the hypocrisy? Like, yeah, these people are deranged,

395
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.039
that's why. No, truly, when he put her in the shed,

396
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:38.880
he put a T shirt on her head and then

397
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:43.200
a motorcycle helmet over her over the T shirt like

398
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.880
that shit is socifocating. This is horrible what he did

399
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.960
after this, he put the T shirt on her head,

400
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.119
then the more cycle over her head, and then tied

401
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.960
her up and then he proceeded to rape her after this,

402
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.440
and then he just left her in the shed. Hours later,

403
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.640
he came back to show her media footage, so like

404
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.279
that night, because there was already a report that she's missing,

405
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:09.000
so he showed her the media footage of that people

406
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:11.119
were looking for her, and then he left. And then

407
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.480
some days past he came back to the shed and

408
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.759
told her to write a letter to her mom, telling

409
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:17.440
her she was okay and not to worry. And she

410
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.319
did write a letter. And she used this opportunity to

411
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.480
write a letter to write or to use her nail

412
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.640
to dig out the words like help, hoping he wouldn't

413
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.319
find it, which is smart. But then he did find it,

414
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.960
and he came back, used the sun gun on her

415
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:38.680
and raped her again. Then he had to write another letter,

416
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:41.160
and this is the one that her mom did receive.

417
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.519
So yeah, they were all they were right all along

418
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.119
she was being forced to write this letter. Yeah, and

419
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.480
you know, the days went by, she prayed every day,

420
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.799
putting up with more assaults and torture from her abuser.

421
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.960
As more time passes, Abby keeps trying to gain his

422
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.839
trust and learn more about her captor. Eventually he starts

423
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.799
slating her read books that he owned, and he gives

424
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.960
her a copy of a cookbook and this is where

425
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.680
she saw his name from the first time, because it

426
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.640
was written in the cookbook. And so before this he

427
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.400
was like, call me master. I'm telling you, Yes, these

428
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:18.480
people are deranged. Yeah, Like, is the connection between the

429
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.759
kind of beliefs he had and behavior like this? It's

430
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.000
just it's it should be studied. It has been studied,

431
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:31.240
you right, Like, of course, someone who has these beliefs,

432
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:35.440
who believes women are second class citizens, it's not a

433
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:40.240
leap to then go out and abduct a teenager, sexually

434
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.240
assault her and rape her and then be like call

435
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.960
me master, Like that's why feminism is important, That's what No,

436
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.200
And it all comes back to on little things, little jokes,

437
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:53.240
little you know, it's humanization. It leads to this but

438
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.559
people always want to excuse it and like, oh, it's

439
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:58.880
just a joke, Like, no, bitch, it's serious. Completely. And

440
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.039
during her time captivity, something else happened where police ended

441
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.240
up feet away from the ship. She was being kept up,

442
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:07.599
but she didn't know it. They didn't know it. Nobody

443
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.680
looked for her there because there was a whole different situation.

444
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:13.920
During a car accident, Nate Kibbie followed a woman home,

445
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.000
like there was a minor car accident, right the person

446
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.119
that hit him or he hit her, it just not clear.

447
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.720
What happened was a woman. He followed that woman to

448
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.079
her house, trespassed into her property, and then he was

449
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.440
in her driveway taking pictures of her car. Of course

450
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.480
he did that because he's deranged. Yeah, And when she

451
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.119
told them to stop, he got all confrontrational and pushed

452
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:36.519
her to the ground and police arrived within minutes. He

453
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.960
was arrested. During this, police took his gun, and part

454
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.039
of his parole deal to be able to like not

455
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.319
go to jail for this basically was for him to

456
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.359
hand over his weapons collection. So police went to his

457
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.519
property to take all his weapons, and when they arrived,

458
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:54.680
it was very strange to them that he was like

459
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.799
they expected like a firefight for this because he's like

460
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.559
my second Amendment. He's one of those people, right, But

461
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.279
when they arrived, there was no fight. He was eager

462
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.880
to give them his weapons to get them to leave. Yeah,

463
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:08.920
he had them laid out in the front like all

464
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.319
ready to go, all the paperwork, like here's this one

465
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.480
and this one already like so that they wouldn't inspect anything.

466
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.839
I'm surprised the search isn't an aspect of this. Yeah,

467
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:20.960
I'm surprised they were in like not that I'm calling

468
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.960
for more right, for the police to be able to

469
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.680
do more things. It's it's a it's a slippery slope,

470
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:31.200
it is, it is. Yeah, but yeah, I know they

471
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.799
he grabbed his weapons and left, and it's just it's

472
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:38.519
it's wild to think that she was right there and yeah,

473
00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.359
they didn't know. You know, so time goes by. She

474
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.000
doesn't know how much time passes. Every day she thinks,

475
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:47.559
this is the damn going to die on. I want

476
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:50.200
to escape, like you know, things like that. She's worried

477
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.799
about her family, if they'll ever see her, if she'll

478
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.799
ever see them, if she'll ever be free again. Yeah,

479
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.799
Nate Kibbie kept her ganged at all times, and he

480
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.000
would play loud metal meuse so no one could hear

481
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.680
her even if she screamed wow. Eventually he was like,

482
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.119
all right, this is like a little much, and he

483
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.200
took out the gag and instead he was like, this

484
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.200
is a shot collar. Here's this shot collar. Put it on,

485
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.640
and then he told her to scream so she could

486
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.440
so that she would know the feeling of being shocked

487
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.640
if she screamed that day that he A little bit

488
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.519
after he gave her the shot collar, he told her

489
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.400
they needed to leave because she the police knew too much.

490
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.720
She knew too much, so he about him and she

491
00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:31.279
He put her in her trunk and he drove away.

492
00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.880
And it seemed like ours to try and keep track

493
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.680
of what was happening. How long it had been she played.

494
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:39.319
She played American Pie in her head over and over

495
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.880
again because she loved Tom Petty and so she knew

496
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.759
that song and how long it was. I didn't know

497
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.039
that song, oh, taking that movie. The only Tom Putting

498
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.079
song I know is the free Falling one. Free falling. Yeah.

499
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:53.319
Little did she know he was driving in circles and

500
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.319
he went right back on to his property. She didn't

501
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.920
take her anywhere, what the hell? Yeah, probably just to

502
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.039
keep her on her toes. Yeah. He put her in

503
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.200
a different room, still inside the shed, and he told

504
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:08.160
her this door is made to catch on fire if

505
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.720
it's busted open. Oh my god, to scare her. There

506
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.680
never was. Yeah, But from this point on she got

507
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.319
to know him more, gain his trust more, and he

508
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:19.519
told her about his marijuana business, his dislike of the police.

509
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.480
When he would tied her up, he would be he

510
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:22.920
would be like, I only know how to tie you

511
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.960
up like this because it's what they did to us.

512
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.319
Turns out they are the police. And he had a

513
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.160
history of being out of prison starting from his teens.

514
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.039
His adult criminal records starts at eighteen with an assault. Wow.

515
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.400
Again not really surprising. Yeah. So she would listen and

516
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.000
when he would talk and say all these stories and

517
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.400
just he would go along with whatever he says. She's like,

518
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.319
he needs to think I'm on his side. Yeah, for

519
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:46.480
me to be let go one day. And so she

520
00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:49.000
even got involved in his counterfeiting money operations. She would

521
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.359
help him with that. He told her that he was

522
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.640
going to start doing this and that he could do

523
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.079
this because of all the money they had taken from him,

524
00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:58.200
it wasn't wrong for him to start printing fake money,

525
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:01.720
and she helped him with this endeavor. And after he

526
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.359
started this fake counterfeit business, he was also apparently dating

527
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.599
on the side or something, because he met a woman

528
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.519
named Lauren Munday and they met online. They met at

529
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.759
a hotel. They had a normal date whatever normal date

530
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.960
with Niate Kibby And how that tells yes, thank you,

531
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.359
that's the words I was looking for. They had a

532
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.440
good time together at this hotel. He offered to pay

533
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.480
for the hotel and he left her three fifty dollars

534
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.799
bills and she tried to use one of them later

535
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.519
at like a store or something like that, and it

536
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.240
was flagged as counterfeit and she was arrested. But then

537
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.400
she told the police, well, this man that I went

538
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.640
on a date with gave me this bill. It's his

539
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.519
fake money, it's not mine. And so she was like oh,

540
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.720
because of that. But then when she was like oh,

541
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.160
she called Nick Kibby and told them, cussed him out

542
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:47.240
and told them like you better watch out because they're

543
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:49.119
coming for you because I told them everything, this is

544
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.279
your fake money, not mine. How dare you send me

545
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.839
up like this, things like that. And so right after

546
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.640
she hung up on him and cussed him out like that,

547
00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:00.200
he went to Abby and told her I'm letting you go. Oh,

548
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:02.920
the police are coming for me. And she had no

549
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.279
idea why, but she didn't know this is what happened,

550
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:08.680
that the fake money situation. But she went with him.

551
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.359
He drove her back to Conway, North Conway. They stopped

552
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:16.640
at a dairy queen before and then he drove to

553
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:20.079
the same spot where he kidnapped her from and he

554
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:24.920
told her to get out, and then she slammed the

555
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.559
door and watched him as he the man that tortured

556
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.519
her for months, drove away. What the hell? Then she

557
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:36.720
walked home and before they left his house, he gave

558
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.799
her a fake story to give to law enforcement that

559
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.279
she was told to say that he was an older

560
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.599
man and he was going to kill everyone if she

561
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.799
said anything about him. And she believed this at first.

562
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:51.680
Don't say anything, yes, of course, but then after a

563
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:53.359
week she was like, you know what, no, and she

564
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.920
told law enforcement everything, that he was nakeddie and all

565
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.640
this other thing, all these other things, and law enforcement

566
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.440
spent his home. They expected a firefight because by now

567
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.519
he had gotten his guns back, but no, he turned

568
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:10.559
himself in and then during the trial he he was

569
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.480
charged with more things. But eventually he was able to

570
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.319
they were able to make a deal where he only

571
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:20.119
pled guilty to set down felony charges yeah, including felonist

572
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:23.720
aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping when it's tampering, and criminal threatening.

573
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.519
And at first it seems like unfair, like Abby and

574
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.640
her family was like angry because this meant he was

575
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:32.279
given less of a sentence because it was not that

576
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:34.359
many charges because at first it was like two hundreds

577
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.519
something chargers. But then prosecutors were like, well, this is

578
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:39.559
better because you don't have to testify, you don't have

579
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:42.079
to go up against the judge yea, and like relive

580
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:46.000
everything and then not even the judge, the defense attorney.

581
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:50.039
That's what it is. Mainly, that's right. And so in

582
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.559
the end they're like, you know what, no, this is

583
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:53.240
right because he's still going to go to jail at

584
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.200
the end of everything. So two years after returning home

585
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.359
at seventeen years old, Abby faced her thirty six year

586
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:05.000
old abuser and gave her impact statement at his sentencing.

587
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.319
This is a part of it. It seems like forever

588
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.880
two years ago. Two years have gone by, both fast

589
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.640
and slow in different senses. But I often think about

590
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:17.480
Nate Kibby and what he did, and what he did

591
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.839
affects my life on a day to day basis. My

592
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:22.119
name does not mean the same thing anymore that I

593
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.759
did before October ninth. I'm intending school and I'm afraid

594
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.079
to let anybody know what my last name is. Nobody

595
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:29.839
knows who my last name is. I did not put

596
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.880
you in prison. You put yourself in prison, So I

597
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.400
can't carry that blame on my shoulders when it's simply

598
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.400
not true that I put you in prison. When you

599
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.160
decided to point that gun at me, that was not

600
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:39.839
my choice. It was not my choice to go to

601
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:41.720
your house. It was not my choice for you to

602
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:43.680
rate me. It was not my choice for you to

603
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.279
threaten me. You did that all by yourself. There are

604
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:48.400
certain aspects of my freedom that I can never get back.

605
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:50.200
But in that same aspect, I want you to know

606
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.480
that I appreciate my freedom because of you that I

607
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.720
enjoy and I appreciate life because of you, And I

608
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:56.599
never look at sunshine in the same way. I never

609
00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.680
think about fresh air in the same way. Oh my god.

610
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.960
And at seventeen, she's telling this to a man who

611
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:07.000
did this to her, Like that's crazy. Her mom also

612
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:11.599
addressed Nate Kilby during the sentencing trial and asked him

613
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.119
what She said, It's all I can think about. Can

614
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.839
you please tell us why you did it? Like she

615
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.160
wanted to know why, But he never did. He didn't

616
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:21.759
say anything. He was sentenced to forty five to ninety

617
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.559
years in prison. Wow. And I was listening to twenty

618
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:28.759
twenty ABC twenty twenty. I think it's who does it?

619
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.920
You know the show They did an episode on this

620
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:35.519
and there's an FBI profiler talking about her case. And

621
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.720
she said, if I had to make a book about

622
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:41.799
what to do when you're kidnapped her, her case would

623
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:46.559
be like number one, where you do what she did,

624
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:53.480
try totze and up peace. Yes, yeah, that's what the

625
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:56.920
profiler said, Like if you know you were to study,

626
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.640
like what can you do? Not that Usually there's something

627
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.759
you can do, but sometimes there is like this. Yeah,

628
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.319
I don't know. It's just so wild because like you

629
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:10.200
hear of other cases like I don't again, I never

630
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.440
remember names, but I read one of damn, what's a

631
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.519
guy from Mindhunter anyway, one of his books, and he

632
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.160
was talking actually I read Mindhunter. I think it was

633
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.319
from mind Hunter, oh the book, yeah, yeah, And so

634
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.079
he was talking about the guy who killed a bunch

635
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:29.880
of like nursing students. I think it was that guy.

636
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:36.119
And he before he went on that ravage, he assaulted

637
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.039
it and raped this woman and when she tried to

638
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:41.680
like appease to him, to try to get him to

639
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:44.000
calm down, and made him more angry and he killed her.

640
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:48.039
So it's like hard to be prescriptive and say you

641
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.200
need to do this one thing, like honestly, there is

642
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.039
no one thing. And obviously people who are abusers just

643
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.039
need to stop like like that. I don't know that's true.

644
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:01.759
Five years after all this, nineteen, Abby gave birth to

645
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.559
a baby. She told ABC twenty twenty that what she

646
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:07.519
learned from this is that no one should lose hope.

647
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.599
Hope is something that no one can take away from you.

648
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.480
She now works as a hairdresser and even served as

649
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.519
an executive producer on the movie Girl in the Shed.

650
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:20.360
The Kidnapping of Abbi Hernandez, a Lifetime movie that stars

651
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:26.320
Ben Savage as the kidnapper. Wow isn't he all weird? Now?

652
00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:28.000
Is he like the one that sounds super religious and

653
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.679
doesn't talk to his former cast world? Oh that's where

654
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.239
the name sounds form eliter. I don't know. I have

655
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.480
no idea. I could be wrong. I could be very wrong.

656
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.599
Don't trust me on that. Are you talking about the

657
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:43.519
guy who also has a sister that was in one

658
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:45.599
of those shows? Also? I forgot which one, the one

659
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.960
with the Mary Kay Nashie Wilson, because he was on

660
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.519
a show from the nineties or eighties whatever it was.

661
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.440
And I don't know. That's not Been Savage. I don't

662
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.239
think so. He's the guy from Boy Means World, the

663
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.719
main guy from Yeah, yeah, but he's not all religious

664
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.159
and weird. It's another guy. Oh he's not. Oh I

665
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:06.079
thought it was him. No, No, I think I know who

666
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:07.679
you're talking about, and I just can't remember his name

667
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.920
right now. It's not him. I know that for a fact.

668
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:15.480
Unless I'm wrong, then I don't know that Kirk Cameron.

669
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.519
It just popped up in my head. You're talking about

670
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:21.800
Kirk Cameron. No, you're probably I am right, Donny, stop

671
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.320
even looking it up. Kirk Cameron is the one that

672
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:25.679
used to be. I don't know if he was on

673
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:29.480
that show or another show, but he's like all low

674
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.039
weird or religious now just like his that must yeah,

675
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:35.159
you're right, you're right, Okay. Anyway, Yeah, he's the cannaper

676
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.880
abuser in this lifetime movie. And she did say about

677
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.360
this that she found it healing to get her story

678
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.199
out on her own terms. But apparently Ben Savage like

679
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.039
ruined the movie and he can act. That's what the

680
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.320
reviews of the movie are. I mean, it's a Lifetime movie,

681
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.360
what do we expect? But yeah, nonetheless, I am glad

682
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.400
she got to tell her story in her own terms

683
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:00.960
and not feel like somebody is king for her. Like

684
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.039
you know that that is powerful and healing. That's powerful. Yeah.

685
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.360
And then she went and that twenty twenty episode. It

686
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.760
was the first time she spoke about it too, and

687
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.159
again it was like all on her terms too. That's good,

688
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.039
that's good. Yeah, yeah, because sometimes twenty twenty can be

689
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:18.360
a little fucking shady. I know, I learned about them.

690
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:25.119
We went to the Crime and Paranormal podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

691
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.079
because Sarah Turney talked about it, yes, yeah, and her

692
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:32.519
and her keynote speech. Yeah, but yeah, that was the

693
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:37.039
case of Abby Ernandez. Wow, well, thank you for sharing. Yes,

694
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:49.480
before we go, do you have any spooky recommendations? I

695
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:53.719
finished the audiobook by Gus what a no science name.

696
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.840
Oh there's a thing between us. Oh yeah, in between us,

697
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.960
That's what I finished. This thing between us? Oh what

698
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.960
did I say? Yes? Between us? Oh my, this thing

699
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:11.320
between us? And it was interesting. It was trippy, it

700
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:15.880
was scary. It actually scared me. I guess I should

701
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:18.159
pull up the synopsis, but I'm just tired and hungry,

702
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.639
so let me just do that real quick because I

703
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:28.719
already started talking about it. Load. Yeah, you know what's saying?

704
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:32.280
Too long to load anyway. It's basically this guy who's

705
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.920
grieving his wife that died, and before she died, like

706
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:38.199
creepy things were happening to them, and then they keep

707
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:43.119
happening after her death. So it was it was good listen.

708
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.920
Kind of shorter on the shorter end for an audio,

709
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.760
but it's a short book. Yeah. I read some reviews

710
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.480
and some people felt like the second half was not

711
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:57.119
really connected to the first half, like and I kind

712
00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:59.519
of agreed with that. It kind of took a turn

713
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:03.960
like a why it didn't really bother me but I

714
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.280
would agree that the first part was a lot different

715
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.920
than the last parts. Interesting, I don't remember enough to

716
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.800
agree or disagree. Like the first parts, you know, he

717
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.840
talks a lot about his grief, the little things that

718
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:21.159
were happening to them, and then like when he starts

719
00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:23.599
seeing that like wall thing, and then it turns out

720
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.440
like into this huge, I don't know thing that has

721
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:29.920
all these different components. And I'm saying it basically because

722
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.760
I don't want to spoil, you know, right right, So

723
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.280
for some people that felt like disconnected, which I would

724
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.320
agree with, but it didn't bother me. If you get

725
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:42.639
what I'm seeing, that makes sense. But I feel like

726
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:44.960
if you weren't paying attention, you missed what happened at

727
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.760
the end. And I had to ask Christina, like what happened? Yeah,

728
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.920
And I was like I kind of remember this, but

729
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.639
I had to look it up. Yeah, but be like

730
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.880
sure it was good. Still, I still recommend it, And

731
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:59.519
it's it's short. It's like you don't lose anything, so

732
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:04.599
even if you don't like six hours and it's like

733
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.679
two hundred and fifty pages less, So yeah, it's a

734
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:11.679
quick read or listen, but yeah, it is fun. It's

735
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:15.719
one of my favorite sad girl horror books. Yea, I

736
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.760
love a sad girl horror book. Yeah, I would throw

737
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:21.239
monstrilli and even I haven't read it, but the way

738
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:23.599
you described it, I would think it fits in there,

739
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:26.719
this one, this thing between us, and then the what

740
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:30.199
was the other one said? Then it's different, but it

741
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.440
is I think grief horror as well. And there's more,

742
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.800
but yeah, yeah, it is worth a read for sure.

743
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:43.039
Would you read it four out of five? Okay? Okay,

744
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:53.239
that's that's all you have? Yes, okay. My speaking recommendation

745
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:57.800
is a podcast I just found. Let me go to

746
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:02.519
my listening history really quick. Okay. It's called Nightmares of

747
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:06.440
the America's Indigenous Tales. Are you freaking serious? I told

748
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:11.199
you about that fucking podcast? Oh oh well, I finally listened.

749
00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:14.159
Wow when did you tell me about it? We make

750
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.519
sure it's the same one. It's like two brothers. Yes, no,

751
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.480
I don't think they're brothers. They're brothers. I thought they

752
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:25.599
have Yeah, it says here Joseph and Gabriel be Hill. Oh,

753
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:29.360
because they have another podcast. But it's also so this

754
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.440
one is literally the same one I fucking told you about.

755
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:34.440
Oh my God. And I think I told you about

756
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:36.599
it more than once, because I I think I talked

757
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.840
about it when I oh, when I was talking about

758
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.199
the when I as a speaker recommendation, I talked about

759
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.320
Killers of the Flower Moon's right, and they have a

760
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.559
series on that. And then I don't know if it's

761
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.199
during that same episode or a different one, but I

762
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.920
was like, I was telling you that they also cover

763
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:56.800
some like Latin American legends because you know, connected and

764
00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:00.800
usually to indigenous folklore, and and I like they talk

765
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:05.400
about they talk about Yes, I did tell you about

766
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:09.480
the ship. Yes, you're right. It's a good it is.

767
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.119
It's a good podcast. And then the so this is

768
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:14.119
two of the siblings, and they have another one where

769
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:16.519
it's three. Now that I didn't know. I only knew

770
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:19.440
about Night amer Americas. And of course it's like not

771
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:21.760
coming up. It's like Terror on Brew I think is

772
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.000
the name of it true? Oh? Sorry, okay, it's true

773
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:28.519
Terror on tap. Oh that's very close. And that's three

774
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.480
other brothers. And here they all three other brothers. I

775
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.119
mean here they talk about more like also true crime

776
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:37.519
and different kind of things. Robert the Dall, the Dead

777
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:42.519
Love Past incident, interesting I didn't know the vampires. Yeah,

778
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.719
so this one's a little more like broader but still creepy,

779
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:48.119
like creepy stories. It's funny they have too, because it's

780
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.079
easily could have been the same one. But the other

781
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.000
one is more like indigenous stories straight up. And it's

782
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.280
not all horror like you said, they have an episode

783
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:00.199
on yeah, but it's like native focused. Yes, yes, it is,

784
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:04.320
like so many interesting topics, yan, the you, no Mummy,

785
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.760
people of the Rainforest, Like I'm adding everything to make you.

786
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:11.719
Three parts on Alclatraz, No, four parts on Alcatraz, all

787
00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.639
almost an hour long, like so many stories, and like

788
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.000
I already listened to a couple of other episodes and

789
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.920
like I'm like, oh, yeah, of our listeners like us,

790
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:22.679
they're gonna like them, they're like us. Yeah, I should

791
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.039
reach out to them, see if they want to do

792
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:27.079
an episode with us. That would be fun. But yeah,

793
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.760
that is my speaking recommendation. The Indigenous or sorry Nightmare

794
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.159
oh my god said the name ones. Yes, thank you,

795
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:40.199
Nightmare of America's Indigenous Tales. Okay, so we're done now right, Yeah, sorry,

796
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:45.280
Car is hungry, she's hungry, she she needs to go. Yes, yeah,

797
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.760
so yeah, stay and Spooky. We'll catch everyone next time.

798
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.199
By the time this is out, we will be preparing

799
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:55.239
for our trip to Mexico, so that's exciting. And if

800
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:58.440
you want to catch ours logs from that trip, assuming

801
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:00.159
we make it, they're alive because we have to get

802
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:03.800
on a plane from the US to Mexico. So pray

803
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.239
for you. Knows if you pray, we'll have some yeah,

804
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:07.800
some content on Patreon for that if you want to

805
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.239
check that out. And yeah, we'll go now because Carmen

806
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.519
is dying, all right, stay Spookie and we'll catch everyone

807
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:18.440
next time. My Booktels is hosted by Christina and Carmen,

808
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:22.440
produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and

809
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:24.840
with the help of Don shout out with Don. If

810
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:26.920
you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say five

811
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.159
star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't

812
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:31.320
want to the professor review, just don't leave a review,

813
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:33.760
but don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.

814
00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:36.400
You can reach out to the podcast at a Spoakatos

815
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.239
at gmail dot com. You can go to our website

816
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.320
at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form.

817
00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:43.440
If you want to support the podcast, you can join

818
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.719
our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes.

819
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:51.079
Eight dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool.

820
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:53.559
I got new ones and these ones are huge. And

821
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.000
if you want to support, but you can or don't

822
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.159
want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can

823
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.639
also get some merch. You can find Shirret Says say

824
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:04.599
a Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I

825
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.239
love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no

826
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.000
Mamus shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot

827
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.159
of options, crap tops, sweaters, it's almost swetter weather. We're

828
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:18.280
nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're

829
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:20.159
gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that,

830
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.199
that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now,

831
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:24.960
and that's the best support that you can give us,

832
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:27.599
like I always say in our ad break and yeah,

833
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.199
if you like history, you can follow Estoria's Unknown Mining,

834
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:35.039
Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find a Spooky taels

835
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.119
on all of our socials at Spooky Tells All. This

836
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.880
is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen.

837
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:43.960
Thank you, so much stay as spooky