May 22, 2026

Muñeca with Cynthia Gómez

Muñeca with Cynthia Gómez
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player iconOvercast podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconiHeartRadio podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconPodchaser podcast player iconDeezer podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconTuneIn podcast player icon

Carmen and Cristina had the pleasure of talking with Cynthia about her new book Muñeca, available 6/2/26 (WE LOVED THE BOOK). Muñeca is a vivid, surreal Gothic about a queer, Latine, working class witch who sets out to rescue a bespelled heiress and loses control of her powers and her heart in the process.

It is 1968 Oakland, and Natalia Fuentes has been hearing rumors about the beautiful Violeta Miramontes. The young heiress to Spanish colonial wealth has been left paralyzed by a mysterious illness. But Nati knows a thing or two about witchcraft, and she is certain that this is the work of dark magic. Armed with a plan to break the spell and earn a handsome reward, Nati works her way into the house as Violeta’s caretaker, and immediately discovers her suspicions are true. But who cursed Violeta? And why? As feelings between the two women bloom into romance, Nati grows more and more reckless, and is forced to face her own ghosts— ones she hoped would stay gone forever.

Cynthia talked to Carmen and Cristina about the inspiration behind the magic that Nati is using, the history behind the Miramontes family living in Orinda and so much more.

Keep up with Cynthia on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/cynthiasaysboo.bsky.social

and on her website: https://cynthiasaysboo.wpcomstaging.com/

If you have a spooky story to share, email Espookytales@gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at the Espooky Hot Line (360)836-4486. You can also submit it on Discord!

Join the Espooky Tales Book Club for Busy People: https://substack.com/@espooky?utm_source=profile-page

Listen to Carmen and Cristina's other podcast Historias Unknown

The next book club read is the Possession of Alba Diaz by Isabel Cañas. If you want to purchase the book, check out our bookshop link https://bookshop.org/lists/espooky-book-club-list

For more spooky stories, check out the Tiktok! https://www.tiktok.com/@espookytales

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/espookytales/

Chat with us on Discord! https://discord.gg/cWk7CvVgaR


Want to be a Patron? Get longer episodes AD-FREE, listen before they are released to anyone else, get bonus episodes, exclusive stickers, virtual hangouts, and more! Support Espooky Tales. Learn more by visiting https://www.patreon.com/Espookytales

By joining, you can help Espooky Tales donate 20% funds to charity.

Get Espooky Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/espooky-tales/

Find us on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@espookytales

WEBVTT

1
00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:08.080
Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is

2
00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:10.519
another episode of a Spooky Talels, the podcast for all

3
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.720
things spooky, true crime, horror, myths legends in Latin America.

4
00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:20.000
But today is another book Club episode with a returning guest.

5
00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:25.399
Three times I think three times now our most returning,

6
00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:32.119
most most returns, most return guest appearances.

7
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.000
Most frequent appearance.

8
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.520
Yes, yes, Cynthia Gomez, welcome.

9
00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:40.399
Hello. I'm so glad to be back. I've been looking

10
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.759
forward to this conversation for quite some time, and I'm

11
00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:44.159
really glad we're able to get it together.

12
00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:48.399
Yes, I'm so excited. I got the email about your

13
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.520
new book, Munyaka, and she was like, and Cynthia mentioned

14
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:54.759
she's been on the show twice before, and I was like, yes,

15
00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.600
and she needs to come back immediately.

16
00:00:58.359 --> 00:00:59.399
I'm so glad to be back.

17
00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:07.319
So let's talk about Munyaka. First. I loved it. Devoured

18
00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:11.599
it in like a car ride from Seattle to Portland.

19
00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:15.680
I just was flipping and flipping it was. It was

20
00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.200
so fun. But let me get the synopsis of listeners

21
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:23.959
really quick. Vivid, surreal gothic about a queer Latine working

22
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.159
class witch who sets out to rescue a bespelled heiress

23
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.040
and loses control of her powers and her heart in

24
00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.959
the process. It is nineteen sixty eight Oakland and Natalia

25
00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:39.760
Fuentes has been hearing rumors about the beautiful Joletta Miramontes,

26
00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.599
the young heiress to Spanish colonial wealth, has been left

27
00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.280
paralyzed by mysterious illness. But Nati knows a thing or

28
00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.000
two about witchcraft, and she's certain that this is the

29
00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.120
work of dark magic. Armed with the plan that's a

30
00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.480
stretch to call it a plan, Armed with the plan

31
00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.120
to break the spell and earn a handsome reward. Nati

32
00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:06.400
works her way into the house as Buletta's caretaker and

33
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.280
immediately discovers her suspicions are true. But who churs Bioletta

34
00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:13.960
and why? As feelings between the two women bloom into romance,

35
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.599
Nati grows more and more reckless and is forced to

36
00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:21.240
face her own ghosts. Once she hoped would stay gone forever,

37
00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:26.000
and yes it was, it was such a fun read.

38
00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.439
She was armed with the concept of a plan, and

39
00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:29.639
there was a concept of a.

40
00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.199
Life never works out the way you planning anyway, So.

41
00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.039
Right, right? I hate I hate when I something like

42
00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.120
I was planning something and it goes wrong, and then

43
00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:42.400
I tell my dad like that it didn't go well.

44
00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.840
He's like, well, you know what they say. Actually I

45
00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.520
don't remember. The say in Spanish something like you plan

46
00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:50.759
it and then God decides something else. But it rhymes

47
00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.240
in Spanish. It sounds so much better.

48
00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.960
Let us plants. Is that the one you're think that's

49
00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:58.520
one of them?

50
00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:00.800
That's one of them. He says, there was another one,

51
00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:01.800
I'm pretty.

52
00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:06.439
Sure, and for for readers who don't speak Spanish, first

53
00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:09.000
of all, if you learn it, but it was if

54
00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.240
you want to make up laugh, tell on your plans.

55
00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:14.520
Mm hmmmmmm. He says that one too. But it's like

56
00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:22.280
something something the city. It isn't right. But no, no,

57
00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:24.360
I thought it. Maybe it doesn't right. Maybe this is

58
00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.520
it probably just made rhyme. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

59
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.319
Let's let's have about the book.

60
00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:31.479
Yeah, I figured it out.

61
00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.840
Yes, by the end. Maybe I'll remember to check. Let's

62
00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:39.039
message him right now, Carmen. No, but yes, let's talk

63
00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:42.759
about the book. Because I remember when we last had

64
00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:45.919
you on at the end you mentioned and we were like,

65
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:52.759
we're so ready, we are seated. But first the setting,

66
00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:57.680
because she not the main character. She lives in Oakland,

67
00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.080
but the media Montes family is not in Oakland, and

68
00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:01.960
what was the thought behind that?

69
00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.439
Well, so I originally was going to set the whole

70
00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.280
thing in Oakland, and I actually knew even what house

71
00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.479
I was picturing for the midime of this house. It's

72
00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:19.759
a house that had been It belonged to this wealthy heiress, right,

73
00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:22.639
not a Spanish colonial heiress, but just a wealthy heiress

74
00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.639
I you know, was in some kind of business in

75
00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:27.879
the late nineteenth century, and then it kind of fell

76
00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.680
into disrepair and people bought it up again. And it

77
00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.120
had at one point been a place for the Center

78
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.519
for Third Role Organizing, and I went to meetings there

79
00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:40.480
in early two thousands, and then they couldn't keep it

80
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.600
up anymore, and so it got sold to this guy who,

81
00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.000
but two or three owners later ended up becoming an Airbnb.

82
00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.040
So it's kind of like the story of opened I

83
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:50.240
oh ohow okay.

84
00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.399
And the guy who bought it in a late nineties,

85
00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:55.560
early two thousands I think, or had it been a

86
00:04:55.560 --> 00:05:00.360
bit two thousands. Anyway, he got rightly pissed off some

87
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.600
people because he made some reference like oh, I'm pioneering.

88
00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.720
Right mm hm, oh my god.

89
00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:07.160
Right.

90
00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.560
You know, obviously he's a white guys come in and

91
00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:12.639
pioneered this this you know, like mostly black and Latinian neighborhood.

92
00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.079
It sounds like he did actually learn a little bit

93
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.639
and and you know, gain some humility. But whatever. So

94
00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.639
the house is physically beautiful. You can if you look

95
00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:24.759
it up, it's called ellen Kenna House. You can look

96
00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.720
it up. That's still listed on Airbnb. Uh. And so

97
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.279
I was going to have them be there, or at

98
00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.639
least like a house that was was supposed to be

99
00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.399
that it was going to be in open And then

100
00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.160
I started doing research and I went to the Oakland

101
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.000
History Room and I had all these like documents and

102
00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.639
papers and lists of langrets and stuff. But I discovered

103
00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.480
really quickly that all of Oakland is inside one landgret

104
00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.720
that was given to this guy, uh luis Marie Peralta.

105
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.319
And like you know how the Peralta College is Peralta Street, right, yeah,

106
00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.399
it's named after it. So the problem I had was

107
00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:02.800
I didn't want to fictionalize the real life of the

108
00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.000
put out the family, because you know, these people really

109
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.680
have descendants, and I didn't want to hurt their feelings.

110
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.480
Maybe that I just I didn't feel comfortable borrowing, fictionalizing

111
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:19.399
real people or fictionalizing the like inventing a different family

112
00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.279
and saying, oh no, it was this family. So I

113
00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:24.279
couldn't have most of the actions be in Oakland, which

114
00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.079
was kind of a bummer. But I picked Ornda because

115
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.639
I had seen this list of like smaller land grants.

116
00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:36.360
And you know, a lot of writing is like actually

117
00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.959
way more logistical and detail oriented than it is like

118
00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.160
big lofty. Let's get into the metaphor, because for example,

119
00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.600
I thought, well, I could send it in Lafayette, and

120
00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.639
there's a La Fayette, Louisiana. People might first think that's

121
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.959
what it's from. Will Not Creek. There's Willnut Creek everywhere.

122
00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.439
Orrenda is further than usual, so I'll sit it there.

123
00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.920
So that's all coming ended up being mostly not in Oakland,

124
00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.839
although Natty lives there, and you know, her mom lives

125
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:05.959
there and her grandma lives there, So that was my concession.

126
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.879
That's a lot of thought that I would have never

127
00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:14.639
known would go behind the setting the setting alone, and

128
00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:15.920
there's like so much more.

129
00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.079
I think I do. I don't know if every writer

130
00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.680
does this, But that's the way my brain works anyway,

131
00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:26.800
is it tries to leap like twenty thirty fifty steps ahead,

132
00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.399
and then usually ends up happening as I try to

133
00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.279
leak twenty or thirty fifty steps ahead, and then I

134
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:32.759
missed the two or three steps that are right in

135
00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.879
front of me. But you know, ask ask anybody who's

136
00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:38.319
been time with me, and they'll tell you that. But

137
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:45.040
writing is a way to channel productively that kind of thinking,

138
00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:47.199
because I do it anyway, whether I like it or not.

139
00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:50.439
And it makes it so much more fascinating that like

140
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:54.240
this family really could have lived there, like because you

141
00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:57.759
did the research to like make it historically accurate. So

142
00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.319
that's very cool, very cool. I don't think I've ever

143
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.000
been there, Orrenda, they've.

144
00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:08.240
Been there briefly, relatively small. What's funny is after I

145
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.120
named the family that I'm on this because I didn't

146
00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.360
find them on any of the list of like the

147
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.920
land Grant families, and it was also like kind of cool,

148
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.439
kind of stuffy, a little bit romantic. And then apparently,

149
00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:22.000
you know, Renda, there is a meet out Monte High School.

150
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.000
Oh so I wasn't gonna change it, I said, Okay,

151
00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:31.639
that's fine, It's just a coincidence. Nobody come after me

152
00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.200
and tell me that you know, you're you're you're worried

153
00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:37.080
that I borrowed your real ancestor and I completely fictionalized

154
00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:38.000
their life and how dare I?

155
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.159
Yeah, it's such a novela sounding last name too, just

156
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:43.440
like you.

157
00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:46.960
Right, that's what I thought it too. I watched a

158
00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:49.320
lot of novelas when I was uh, when I was younger,

159
00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:56.519
and like the yeah, okay, that could be this morning.

160
00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:07.759
Yeah. Another thing I wanted to talk about, what was

161
00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:13.120
the process or the thought behind the way magic works

162
00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:17.600
for NAT because that felts so unique and different to

163
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.879
oh and Carmen and I were talking before before recording,

164
00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.200
but it also reminded us of The night the Nightmare

165
00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:27.200
Box itself too.

166
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.360
That makes me happy that the connection to the Nightmare Box,

167
00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.159
because that's kind of where the character of Rama and

168
00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:36.559
that magic system kind of came from. I mean, it's

169
00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:38.759
a lot older, right I wrote. I wrote the Nightmare

170
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:42.720
Box short story in twenty twenty, and I started working

171
00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:46.000
on Munyaka in twenty twenty three. But in terms of

172
00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.759
where you ask, like where the magic came from? You know,

173
00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.759
I remember having this conversation with two of my writing

174
00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.919
friends a good while ago, and we were just kind of,

175
00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.799
you know, talking through we're all writing and working on

176
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.200
and one of the things I said, I was trying

177
00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.480
to figure out a different story in the Nightmare Box collection,

178
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.799
the one about With and the Robe Thorns, and and

179
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:15.519
so my friend t Naja said something like, you know,

180
00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:20.080
even even magic needs certain parameters, right, Like you need

181
00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:23.720
something to spark the spell. You need something hopefully to

182
00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.440
tell the spell who to work on, obviously, because you

183
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.960
could really see it screwing up very badly if the

184
00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.600
spell doesn't know who to work on, and when does

185
00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.360
it start, when does it stop? And what does it

186
00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.840
look like? And so you know, I think, for example,

187
00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:44.120
I gotta watched some of the the movies that came

188
00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.679
from the Wizard Book, whose name I'm not gonna bother

189
00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:47.759
with because fuck her.

190
00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.480
Oh yeah, it's okay, we all know that.

191
00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:53.360
One, right, And for them, they just point a thing

192
00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.080
and they say two phrases and it works. And I

193
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:56.960
remember thinking, like.

194
00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.919
It's kind of lame, right, yeah.

195
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.799
And also there's just so many like leaps, and so

196
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.039
if you're trying to think of opportunities for the magic

197
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.679
to go wrong. Then you've just eliminated ways for the

198
00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.039
magic to go wrong, right, because again, if you if

199
00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:15.919
the magic doesn't know where it's gonna land or who

200
00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:18.840
the target is going to be, then you could really

201
00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.240
fuck somebody. Yeah, and if you forget and don't tell

202
00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.960
it when to turn it off. So that like I

203
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.159
actually started a little bit with thinking about it's the

204
00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:31.519
magic's gonna have some rules, and then I just started

205
00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:36.159
playing with the spells and the role of music, Like

206
00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:37.720
that's how I figed dot music.

207
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.799
That was so cool. I was amazed.

208
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.240
I'm so glad you loved the music because that was

209
00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.559
so much fun for me to write, like picking the

210
00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.279
songs and trying to figure out, like, you know, some

211
00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.960
of it is like the you know is really obvious,

212
00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.200
like the edit James song I'm Gonna go wind right

213
00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.799
or you know, it's pulled outside, and that was really fun,

214
00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:57.720
and some of it was a little bit more metaphorical,

215
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.919
and some of them were like, for example, I knew

216
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:03.240
that I was going to put Nina, so I put

217
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.159
a spell on you. I always wanted to put that

218
00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:07.240
in there. It was so damn obvious. It was could

219
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.440
be ridiculous, so I didn't, and then others were a

220
00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.080
little more subtle, like the lyric Colling song. And so

221
00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:16.440
it was really fun to have magic be the spark

222
00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:18.879
because then music be the spark for the magic, because

223
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.799
then I could just look for all the songs that

224
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.799
I loved and include the songs that I grew up

225
00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.399
listening to that belonged to that time period. Because my

226
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.360
mom is more or less the same age as Nappy,

227
00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:33.080
she was like a year or two younger, so those

228
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:34.960
were a lot of her songs as well, and she

229
00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.639
still has the records and I used to listen to

230
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:37.360
them i was a kid.

231
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.080
Amazing. Yeah, that was super fun to read about all

232
00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.720
the music and just how connected the music was to

233
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:44.519
the spells too.

234
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:49.320
It's like somebody did a this, maybe cry a little.

235
00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:51.879
I was like walking out to bart and you know,

236
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.600
you're not supposed to read your own reviews, but I do,

237
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.440
and I tried it to have a sanguine had to

238
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.440
tute about it, and I think for them most part,

239
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.519
I do because I'm not gonna be able to stop

240
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.200
reading the reviews because I'm just curious. And so this

241
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.840
one woman actually made a playlist of every song, not

242
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.240
just because I have a playlist of what I listened

243
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.440
to when I was making it, right, but she made

244
00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.879
a playlist of like if I made a Dean Martin reference,

245
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.519
she put that in the playlist, Or if I talk

246
00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.840
about Moonlight Sonata, she put that on the playlist. And

247
00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:25.720
so it really did make me tear up a little bit.

248
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.279
That somebody made that and I got it on the

249
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.360
Spotify and I've been listening to it, and yeah, so

250
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.240
that's one of my favorite thoughts about getting to do

251
00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.240
this writing stuff, is getting to mess with music.

252
00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:41.639
Yeah, that was super cool. Another another thing I noticed,

253
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.720
and I don't want to like spoil too much about

254
00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.679
the book, but because I want everyone to read it,

255
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.279
it's so good. And again it's such a fast read.

256
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:54.039
Like again, I was just speeding through it. But Nazi

257
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.159
is not fully like she didn't finish her lessons from

258
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:02.399
her grandma, and so that was and I felt like

259
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.279
that was like an interesting choice. What was what were

260
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.519
you thinking about he now, like not making her finish

261
00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:11.200
her training, and obviously there was like reason, like her

262
00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:16.600
grandma was kind of mean to say the least.

263
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:23.240
Grandma was my favorite character to write, because yeah, she's

264
00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:27.120
just like normally and and you know it's not a spoiler, right,

265
00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.360
but like someone asks, if someone asks you, oh, is

266
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.519
this your specialty, you're not just gonna say no, You're

267
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.039
gonna say oh no, but this is like that's how

268
00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.200
we all talk. And grandma doesn't do that. She doesn't

269
00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:43.440
do like conversational conventions. And so it was really fun

270
00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:45.799
to write with that kind of freedom and just to

271
00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:47.120
write somebody who does not give a.

272
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.679
Fuck, even though she really did it.

273
00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:54.679
I would not want to cross drama. I would not scary.

274
00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:59.519
She's really scary. And she's nothing like my own grama,

275
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:00.759
my own grandmother.

276
00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:02.360
That's good, good to know.

277
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.240
Yes, neither of my own grandma's was anything like her,

278
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.360
So that was really fun too. Would be like what

279
00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:15.039
would my grandma do? Okay, the opposite every day. But

280
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:18.840
oh sorry, I almost forgot that question we were asking about,

281
00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:21.960
like why not they didn't finish. You know what's funny

282
00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.759
is I I don't remember how much I thought about that.

283
00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.679
I think to have not the be like a completely

284
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.399
vested which like she's all you know, she's got the lifestyle,

285
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:40.799
she's in it. I think there's less pool and her

286
00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.159
being divided about like what relationship do I have with magic?

287
00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:50.399
And you know, there would be less, she'd be risking less,

288
00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.080
I think, to be going into the house. But what's

289
00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.399
interesting is like I do not remember now how much

290
00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.360
I thought about that part of it. I remember that

291
00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:00.519
was just always what it was going to be, that

292
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:02.519
this was she's going to go back. She doesn't know

293
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.480
how to do everything. She's going to have to, you know,

294
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.240
by going back to magic. Right, she's gonna have to

295
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:10.080
go back to the magic that she left behind from

296
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.480
years before if she's going to try to break the spell,

297
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:17.279
and she's going to you know, quickly realize that, Oh,

298
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.440
I guess I should have kept more with my lessons, right,

299
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.919
But I think that's as far as I thought about it.

300
00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:25.759
But I really like being asked about it. Even though

301
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:29.039
I can't totally answer, like how much I thought about it,

302
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:33.279
I can say that, you know, it does it makes

303
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.399
the other journey that not be's on, Like what line

304
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.519
do I cross? What line do I not cross? Does

305
00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.759
it matter? Like does it matter if I hurt someone,

306
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.480
if I'm doing it for love or revenge? Can I

307
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.000
control it? Like if she's already established, which that might

308
00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.159
be that there might be less less uncertain, a lot

309
00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:57.279
of that might be more decided.

310
00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:00.639
It would have been a completely different journey for her,

311
00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:11.039
for sure. Yeah, and it was fun to watch her

312
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.400
or read about her winging it and be like, Okay,

313
00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.079
this didn't work. Why didn't work? Or on surprises didn't work?

314
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:18.400
Like what should I try next?

315
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:23.279
I went to this this workshop about it was exactly called.

316
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:26.000
It was something like try fail cycles when I was

317
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.839
first outlining, and that was the author laid out. And

318
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.920
I don't even remember who gave the workshop because I've

319
00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.119
been to a bunch of them. They're kind of blurring together.

320
00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:39.960
But it was about different reasons why you might make

321
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.240
your main character fail at the thing of setting out

322
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.279
to do uh you know? Or do they fail and

323
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.319
then they are set back? Do they have to sacrifice

324
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.200
one goal for the sake of another? And I hadn't

325
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.240
when I was still outlining it. I hadn't figured out

326
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:58.039
exactly when she's going to fail. It's not a spoiler

327
00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.480
to say she fails right that first time. It would

328
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.119
be a sparler to say what happens next? But then

329
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:07.480
you know, to have her wrestle with Okay, what the

330
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:09.880
hell do I didn't know. My plan didn't go that far.

331
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:12.960
And it made us like it made her like think, well,

332
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.039
I didn't really have a plan. And then I think

333
00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:17.039
her friends. And when that's telling, you're like, have you

334
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.920
really thought about this? She's like, oh shit, my friend

335
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.279
was right. Doris was right.

336
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.599
I think the lesson we learned is that Doris is

337
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.119
always right.

338
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.759
Actually, yes, yes, never questioned Doris.

339
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:35.559
Give her her money, give her her raise.

340
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.640
She deserves every bit of it. Mm hmm, and she

341
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:46.079
knows it and she knows yes, yes, I was Oh,

342
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.200
before we I was gonna mention about the Grandma. She

343
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.559
made me think of the if the main character from

344
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.759
the Nightmare Box wouldn't didn't change, she would have been

345
00:18:58.119 --> 00:18:59.519
the Grandma.

346
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:05.480
I love that comparison. I love that comparison and I

347
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:09.720
want some day to like the character from the Namba Box, Serena,

348
00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:15.240
who's you know, really is not Serena. You know, she

349
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.440
comes to certain crossroads and she goes one direction. But

350
00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:22.799
you know, one of the things that things that's interesting

351
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.920
is how much people can really change, right, So, like

352
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:30.960
you know, maybe or one of the characters says, like,

353
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.319
you know, if I were in her shoes, I'd promise anything,

354
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.559
and later I'd worry about whether I could keep it right.

355
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.440
So I love that comparison because if we were to

356
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.119
pick back up Serena, like five years later, ten years later,

357
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.559
twenty years later, did she change right?

358
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:45.720
Well?

359
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:47.759
Did she try to stay on a different path and fail?

360
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.319
Did she not try that hard? Because she was that interested?

361
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.960
Like did she happen to her? Like yeah, yeah, but

362
00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:00.079
I love that comparison, And yeah, Grandma is I. I

363
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.079
gave this interview that had this whole longer class explanation

364
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.960
that I won't get into with. Grandma's a hustler, right, like.

365
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.559
Oh yeah, that's what I was thinking, and I was

366
00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.119
gonna like I was thinking of how to phrase it. Yeah,

367
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.319
she made me think of someone who who was like

368
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.519
from the streets, and she just like that's that's her

369
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.079
her code, Like I need to do what I need

370
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:22.960
to do to get by, and that's that Like who

371
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:23.880
are you to question me?

372
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:28.359
You know? Yeah, And that's how Serena talks about to

373
00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:31.400
She's like, when did these you know, these goofy motherfuckers

374
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:32.599
ever put food on my table?

375
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:33.039
Right?

376
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:38.920
So this book was set in sixty eight, and at

377
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.480
that time there were black panthers. This isn't opened, right,

378
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.279
A lot of actionsn't open. And that time they were

379
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.480
black panthers selling the Little Red Book. And when you

380
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.839
read essays like I've read an essay or two, like

381
00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.240
a interview with like with Fred Hampton who was murdered

382
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.880
that long after that, she talks about the lumpin proletariat.

383
00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:02.160
And that's what Grandma is. She's the militariat. She's like

384
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.640
because you know, she's got her little one bedroom apartment.

385
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.319
She's not getting you know, huge big money off of

386
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:11.359
her off of her spell she's surviving off of her spells.

387
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.720
But her attitude is absolutely like it's the lump and

388
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.880
proletary attitude of like, I gotta get mine. I'm in

389
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.599
it for myself. I'm not necessarily actively out to harm you,

390
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.079
but I don't care either, and I don't really care

391
00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.880
who I screw over as long as it means that I,

392
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:29.559
you know, get.

393
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:30.319
What I'm getting paid.

394
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.039
Right, And then you have these other moral polls, you

395
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.759
have not these mom, who is the class conscious proletariat.

396
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.960
And that's why she rejects the whole idea of like

397
00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.960
being out for herself, And so she's so horrified by

398
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.440
her own mom's morality, and then you have not theos

399
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:49.680
kind of pulled in between the two.

400
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.079
And I was gonna say, like a mix of the two, right,

401
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:55.880
it's so fascinating to hear this.

402
00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:03.559
And then you have the parents. Boletta is also stuck,

403
00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.000
well not stuck, because she has a very different attitude

404
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.839
towards her family origin. But Bioletta is also The position

405
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.519
that Letta's in is she's got her husband who's like

406
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.200
the Landed aristocracy. Right, he was kicked out of the

407
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.359
Cuba for being sugar.

408
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.799
Branti seeing origin story for him, I.

409
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:27.880
Don't really want to spend more time in his head

410
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.400
because I didn't make that interesting and the purpose self,

411
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:36.519
he's a gretty asshole, that's it, right, A pretty asshole. Yeah,

412
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.680
he's charming, he's a greedy ass And then you have

413
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:43.279
the mom, missus Milamantez.

414
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.400
Who's like the old Landed aristocracy, and Bioletta is screwed

415
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.599
because neither of those classes of people cares for human

416
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.480
beings at all. Right, And so so Berioletta is is

417
00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.759
a position where she's going to have a future, She's

418
00:22:57.799 --> 00:22:59.880
going to have to figure out who does she cast

419
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:00.400
a lot of.

420
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.839
Yes, and I won't say more because we don't want

421
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.440
to spoil.

422
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.880
It, right, That's what I'm thinking, Like, I don't want

423
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.119
to bring up spoilers. I will say when I was

424
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.720
reading it at first, I was like, why is it

425
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.480
called Munika? And then when it when it happens, I

426
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:19.920
was like, Oh, that's why it's called That's why.

427
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.240
I loved Did you guys ever watched the movie Dolls?

428
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.480
No Dolls?

429
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:34.799
It's very cheesy, very silly eighties is it? Is it

430
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.400
a slasher? I guess there's some of the conventions of

431
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:38.839
a slasher, but I will call it that.

432
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:45.759
It's from like movie cover the doll actually seen it.

433
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.160
It's not to be there you go to be.

434
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.519
To be is such a great source for to be

435
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.839
is where it's I love to be to quote chat

436
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:58.599
from Nightmare on Fair Street. To Be is that girl?

437
00:23:59.759 --> 00:23:59.960
Yeah?

438
00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:04.839
Yes, yes, So it's it's worth a watch if you

439
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.480
like kind of low budget, cheesy eighties hoard movies. But

440
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.640
there are dolls and I watched that.

441
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.079
Okay, sounds very fun.

442
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.920
Yes, there they're dolls and they got that reality like

443
00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.839
don't don't don't be greedy, asshole, don't be mean to kids, right,

444
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:22.880
Like those are the lessons that the characters learn, and

445
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.359
of course, you know, somebody has to not learn that

446
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.200
lesson otherwise we don't have a movie. And so it's

447
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.000
it's really fun to see how the dolls deal with you.

448
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.400
If you're a greedy asshole and and or you're mean

449
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.200
to children, I.

450
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.039
Have to watch that kind of you. Chucky mars in

451
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.279
the show because I think in the in the movies

452
00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:46.519
he's not as like defensive of like the kids. He

453
00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:48.119
kind of like messes with them a little bit, but

454
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.440
he goes more after the adults still in the movie.

455
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:52.799
But in the show he's like with this kid and

456
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:55.079
he even has a conversation with the kid who like

457
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.759
finds him or whatever. I forget why. The kid brings

458
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.960
it up something about Chucky b like pro lgbt Q

459
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.200
plus Like okay, Chuck is like, yeah, my kids trance,

460
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:07.640
like of course I love Like he doesn't say I

461
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:09.920
love the gays, but he basically says something like that.

462
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:14.480
In this show. It is just show. I watched a

463
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.960
few episodes and then it was it was unfortunately canceled

464
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.640
because it was fun. It was fun. Yeah, yeah, I

465
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:21.400
think it only had a season. I don't think he

466
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.240
even had a second one.

467
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:29.200
I that is a total departure, not a not a difference.

468
00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:31.480
Like it's like they took it and went off a

469
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:36.119
completely tangential direction to like Child's play, right, because way

470
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.559
never touches on gay themes. I mean, I'm sure you

471
00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.599
could find queer stuff for there if you look hard enough,

472
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.160
but they never bring it up away or the other.

473
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:45.759
Uh so they took with it.

474
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.839
Yeah, it comes up because what's Chucky's the other supposed

475
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.559
to their son, you know, with the Jennifer to lead

476
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.319
all and him, then they have that the other like son.

477
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.839
But it's like, oh my god, what is this dolls name?

478
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:00.759
I don't remember.

479
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.319
I know you're talking about, but I don't remember I

480
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.480
And it has like nothing to do with Munyaka anymore,

481
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:07.440
but I need That's okay.

482
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.240
It's fun to talk about Chucky. We love Chucky in

483
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.359
this house. And oh now I'm just wondering, like what

484
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:16.079
would Grandma and Chucky do if they how about each other?

485
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.440
Right?

486
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:23.319
Okay, So Glenn Glenn, he's called himself Glenn, but he's

487
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:26.319
like gender fluid, and I do remember that from the

488
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:34.960
movie that's Glenn. Yeah, and very purple. Yeah. Yeah, and

489
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.000
so in the movie, like Chucky is not as quick

490
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.440
to accept him as Oh my god, what is her

491
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.319
Jennifer Tilly? I keep calling her Jennifer Tilly, but that's

492
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:47.960
the doll, you know, the doll version of Jennifer Tilly.

493
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.799
She does accept him quicker than Chucky, doesn't. She try

494
00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.920
to kill Chucky because he doesn't accept something like yeah,

495
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.920
something like that. But by the time the show comes out,

496
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:01.839
apparently Chucky has changed hears He's actually supportive of good

497
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.599
of Glenn. Yeah.

498
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:09.279
You know, if even a murderous doll who like sucks

499
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.920
with you know, black magic can accept their trans kid,

500
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.279
then what the hell is everybody else's problem?

501
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:21.079
Right exactly? And since actually, you know what this kind

502
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:24.519
of does tin Tu Munya Goad because it's also such

503
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:26.359
a stapphic love story.

504
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:33.319
Well, the other connection is Jennifer Tilly. So Bound was

505
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.000
one of my favorite inspiration texts when I was writing this,

506
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:43.200
and when I was originally shopping and around sending it

507
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.160
out to agents and the like, I just I pitched

508
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.680
it as Bound meets Mexican Gothic.

509
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:53.359
Oh my god, oh my god, I love this. When

510
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.000
you were like Jennifer Tilly was like, how but now.

511
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.160
And I will not get I will say that I

512
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.799
borrowed like pieces from Gothic, pieces from fairy tales, and

513
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.839
pieces from heist movies, but that doesn't mean I borrow

514
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.240
all the pieces. And so so it's not a spoiler

515
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.279
say like that there are elements where this is like

516
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:17.200
a heist movie. But I do love the way like

517
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:19.680
in heist movies there's like, oh my god, these characters

518
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.440
are making increasingly more and more dangerous choices, and yes,

519
00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:27.119
what if it fails? Then something has to fail because again,

520
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:29.319
if something doesn't fig on, you don't have a story.

521
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:36.359
And so yeah, Bound is my patron saints and my

522
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:37.960
my north star for this book.

523
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.160
Oh I love that. Oh I love I love when

524
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:45.759
we get to talk to obviously not just you, but

525
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:48.720
all authors, but especially you, because so first we like,

526
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:50.960
we love these stories that you're writing, but then getting

527
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:54.079
into here like the inspiration behind them, and like that

528
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.839
thought process is like I don't know if it's was

529
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.279
spoiled to know, and our listeners will as will be

530
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:00.960
spoiled to know.

531
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:05.359
Well, it's really fun to talk about. So it looks

532
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:06.599
like we're all.

533
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:18.039
Doing that right, Well, we were just talking about like

534
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:23.079
the queer aspects of the book and in the after

535
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:25.440
what is called afterward. I was gonna say after thought,

536
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:31.200
but I know that's wrong. Authors probably, Yeah, these authors not.

537
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.759
It was super cool to read about the queer history

538
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:40.319
that you looked into for the book and maybe just

539
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.880
general like interest in that. But can you talk to

540
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.079
us more about that, like maybe some of the queer

541
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.359
history that inspired the settings and the places that I

542
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.880
like her and her friends go to. Yes.

543
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.480
Yes, So that is also really fun to talk about.

544
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.559
And that also ties back to the Nightmare Box, the

545
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:02.160
collection and a little bit the story. So I think

546
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:06.319
I mentioned that they when I was talking to you

547
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.720
guys about the night a Box collection, that there is

548
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.920
a club called the Jubilee which was a semi underground

549
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.480
club in East Auckland. I don't know when it opened

550
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:20.000
for sure, I can I am pretty sure it was

551
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.160
not open in like sixty five, when I have not

552
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.000
been going there, but I decided that it was.

553
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:26.920
I do that a lot.

554
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.440
I go, Okay, I can't make a huge leap. I

555
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.799
can't make you know if it's a semi underground club

556
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.440
or I find maybe it might have been open a

557
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:38.640
couple of years before we know for sure it's I'm

558
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:43.519
not making a public gate club happening in Orinda it

559
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.680
nineteen fifty five. I bet you I wouldn't fly right parameters.

560
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.200
You still have to kind of go with the general trends,

561
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.880
although you know some I'M stuff surprises right, like what

562
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:58.599
I was. So one of the books that I referenced

563
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:01.559
in that author's note is a book called Wide Open Town,

564
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.279
and it is by an author who's still a professor

565
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:08.200
at s A State. And she did all this primary

566
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.559
source research trying to find about as much as she

567
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.880
could about queer nightlife in the Bay Area before Stonemost,

568
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.759
so before sixteen. I think she stops in sixty five

569
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:23.039
or so. And so she did things like looking at

570
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.839
arrest records, like where was public vagrancy or public indecency

571
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.559
I think is probably the term that would have been found,

572
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.599
you know, where were people being arrested for something that

573
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:36.160
was illegal then? Because there were times when just two

574
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.480
queer people in a bar was considered publican decency. So

575
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:43.559
she did all this really cool research and interviewed people

576
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:47.599
and like digs up old like facsimiles of flyers and

577
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:50.599
things like that, But she also has photographs, and one

578
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:52.400
of the photographs that just stuck with me, like, I

579
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.240
can picture it and now if I close my eyes

580
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.839
for these house parties. And that's where in the book,

581
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:02.799
at the very very beginning, when not be describing basically

582
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:05.960
for the first time realizing that she's queer and now

583
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.720
all that, but there are other women and that in

584
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.200
these spaces she could just be herself and she realizes

585
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.720
all that like in a split second, is at one

586
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:18.319
of these house parties. And so that was a huge

587
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:25.279
revelation because it allowed me to answer the question of like, well,

588
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.920
what is the clear spaces that were public were a

589
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:32.319
little bit more common for white people to go to, right, Like,

590
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:34.240
if you're a woman of color, you might have more

591
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.880
social stigma, you might feel less welcome even if you're welcome,

592
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:41.640
maybe you also want to meet other women of color,

593
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:45.599
and you know, you don't necessarily want to, you know,

594
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:47.440
you want to be among people who kind of get

595
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:50.960
what you're going through. So yeah, so the house party

596
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.119
was able to be a space for where women could

597
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:56.799
go to, and so that was like just the fact

598
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:58.839
that that picture was there was hugely pivotal because that

599
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.200
is also basically the way I designed the apartment in

600
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.319
my head where the party was happening, is it matched

601
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:08.359
that picture. Different decor, but same shape, right, and same

602
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:12.839
general idea. So then that book was the main research

603
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.119
that I did. I found some essays about what that

604
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.720
you believe was like the place where every once in

605
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.880
a while, and that the will go in the story,

606
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.720
and a few of the other clubs that were around

607
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.680
at the time, and a lot of them seemed to

608
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:28.680
have closed down by the late sixties, but I bet

609
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:30.759
you there was at least one hunderground clunth and nobody

610
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.039
ever knew of because that's how it goes, right, Stuff

611
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.240
doesn't always stick around in the archives.

612
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:42.200
Yeah. Yeah, And like whenever there's I don't know, something

613
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.960
public or like that everyone knows about later, there's always

614
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.359
something that like you didn't know about happening, Like there's

615
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.279
always like a press like a before like you didn't

616
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.079
just pop out of nowhere. So yeah, that makes perfect sense.

617
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.599
There was like the wide Open Town was how I

618
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.240
learned about this guy. Yeah, I probably talked about him

619
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:02.400
before too.

620
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.559
Oh, we we know about him because we did an

621
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:10.880
episode as a known Yeah, I was on the our

622
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:14.719
history podcast, Yeah, our history podcast. But yeah, because a

623
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.360
lot of people talk about, oh, what's the guy there's

624
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:24.760
a movie from Yeah, Henry, Henry, Harry Henry Milk Milk,

625
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.360
Harvey Milk. Okay, people always bring up Harvey Milk, but

626
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:33.079
there was already Jose who did it before him. Uh,

627
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:38.159
And so it's just like like these stories exist, but

628
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.000
we just like don't know about it until way later.

629
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:43.599
But I remember when we talked about him and then

630
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.000
I did a short little video that we posted about

631
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:50.159
him on TikTok and Instagram and Instagram we had a

632
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.079
shot of comments because I don't know, like the hateful

633
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:55.639
bought people found it and they were just leaving these

634
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.280
insane comments, so we turned them off. But on TikTok

635
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.239
there were so many normal positive comments that were just like,

636
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.800
oh my god, our people can do anything, or wow,

637
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.079
I didn't know about him, but like as a queer person,

638
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.920
it's so awesome to hear like how he like the

639
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.599
I was gonna call him Henry again, Harvey Milk wasn't

640
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:17.639
at first, and it was actually Jose. So yeah, yeah,

641
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.719
a very fascinating life he had, Like.

642
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.519
She was so fascinating, Like his mom was supportive, which, like,

643
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:28.719
that's the thing too, is that when I started looking

644
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:30.679
into this the stuff, I had to realize that I

645
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.599
made a whole bunch of assumptions that weren't, you know,

646
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:38.360
necessarily supportable, right, Like my assumptions were that before Stonewall

647
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:42.280
stuff was almost never public, that it was almost always underground,

648
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.800
and that wasn't true at all. And you know, similarly,

649
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:51.159
like this assumption that most families were unsupportive. Well, you know,

650
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:56.440
obviously someone unsupportive, but yeah, not at all. Yeah, yeah,

651
00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:00.000
And so so that was really like an important, yeah,

652
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.760
bit of humility that I had to learn. And I'm

653
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.840
sure whatever, I'm sure there are lots of other assumptions

654
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.440
that I still haven't uncovered that you know, I need

655
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:10.480
to kick in the pants about. But that was nice,

656
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:11.159
nice to get r.

657
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:18.840
Yet yeah, yeah, wasn't there a riot? Like, oh, people

658
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.960
call Stonewall the riot, but like it was an uprising,

659
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.719
But wasn't there one on the West Coast before there was?

660
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.400
There's this little movie, a little I don't think the

661
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.280
work that went it was a little short. It's a

662
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:33.320
short film and I do not remember the name of

663
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:36.679
the woman who pioneered it. It's also a word of

664
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.079
trying to get rid of one vocabulary. Who brought up

665
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.199
the history had made the film. But so yeah, so

666
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.480
it was nineteen sixty five. It was the Confidence Cafeteria Riot,

667
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:48.840
And I learned almost all this from watching that one

668
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:52.199
short film, so you know, I'll have my knowledge is

669
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.920
gonna have limitations. But it was this you know, like

670
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.280
late night diner in the Tenderline, very close to where

671
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:03.599
I actually live on Taylor Street and or and the

672
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.679
space was like ended up being the Tenderline was a

673
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.000
space for like a lot of trends and free people

674
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.360
ended up because it was relatively expensive, there was a

675
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.760
lot of night life, and the city was kind of

676
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.320
trying to contain a little bit of like the pretty

677
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.559
nightlife scene in the Tenderline even in the sixties. And

678
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:23.599
so it was a place where a lot of people

679
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:26.239
who were like sex workers or particular trends sex workers

680
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.639
could come and hang out and like you know, spend

681
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:30.280
fifty celts and a cup of coffee and stay all

682
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.840
night and stuff and be relatively safe and safe until

683
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:37.079
they weren't. Right. I think it was very similar to Stonewall,

684
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:39.719
And from what I can tell, it was a little

685
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.519
bit less of it. It got way less attention obviously because

686
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.079
you know, none of us have encountered it. We don't

687
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:48.639
encounter anywhere here as frequently as we encountered Stonewall. Like

688
00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:51.320
I didn't hear about it until a few years ago myself, Yeah,

689
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:55.960
can't hear about it now. See, Like that's that's the thing,

690
00:37:56.079 --> 00:38:00.880
is that you know, it's we we keep having to

691
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:03.199
learn this lesson and again, I'm sure I'll learn this

692
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.599
in different variations the rest of your life, but that

693
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:09.320
you know that there's so much stuff you just don't

694
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.159
know about, and so you keep having to remind ourselves,

695
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.599
like you know, absence of evidence is not evidence.

696
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:20.960
Of absence, Yes, yes, And I think that's why I

697
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.039
don't know reading a book like Munyaka, and also even

698
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.840
like Munyaka makes me think of other similar books by

699
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:32.840
Latina authors like Sidia or Isabel, but all of you

700
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:36.840
do the same thing, where there's stories you know, obviously

701
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:41.239
they're fiction, but like they're rooted in something very real.

702
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.920
And I love that you included all the information you

703
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.920
did in the authors though, because then it can send

704
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.480
us down these rebel holes like oh oh what about

705
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.519
this place and this place and this place. So that

706
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.760
is like a very very awesome thing to do because

707
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:56.400
obviously not everyone does that, and you have to like

708
00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.599
seek out interviews of like authors like they said, what

709
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.840
But that's something that I love about your work and

710
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.280
like all these other books that also have like it's

711
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.360
a very real, real story. And that's the other thing

712
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.360
that's beautiful about horror. It's like rooted in history. It

713
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:16.400
can serve as like a vessel for such deeper themes

714
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.039
because in your book, we have, you know, real history

715
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:21.480
that happened, we have colonization, we have like I don't know,

716
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.239
I feel like the patriarchy is another reason that Violetta

717
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:26.880
is in the situation that she's in. Like, there's just

718
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:30.280
so many themes that you're able to to touch upon

719
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.760
when using horror as like the venue. So that's just

720
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:34.679
I love it.

721
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:37.480
That's one of the reasons why I love reading it

722
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.960
and I love writing it. And there's so I don't remember,

723
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:44.719
like because I've gotten to be on the show twice, No,

724
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:45.960
I feel like, there's no way I'm not going to

725
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:51.199
recycle stories. But do you remember, I don't remember if

726
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.559
we talked about the backstory behind the movie La the

727
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:56.519
Guatemalan one.

728
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.079
I feel like if it didn't come up with you,

729
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:02.400
I know I I have talked about it in a

730
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.360
bunch of places, but I will always hear more about

731
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:08.119
it because I love it. So go ahead, because I.

732
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.159
Let I'd love that movie so much, and I love

733
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:12.679
the backstory. But this particular backstory that I'm thinking of

734
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.320
is why the filmmaker said he made it. He was

735
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.400
in an interview where he said, look, I really wanted

736
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:23.320
to make a movie about the Gauatemalan genocide, and there's

737
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.519
not nearly enough. He wanted to bring it to life,

738
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:29.239
but he said, you know, I don't think people would

739
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.559
come to a movie that's quote unquote about the genocide,

740
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:38.519
but we love horror movies. So that's why he did that.

741
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:42.679
And it's a story like you can tell when you

742
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:44.480
watch it. And this is a story that he's really

743
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:48.440
been wanting to tell. And I can't say this is

744
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.360
how we can see it and this is where it

745
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.519
comes through. I'm not a film scholar, but we can

746
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.480
tellent that we feel it. And one of the things

747
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:59.239
that I am so grateful about being able to have

748
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:02.199
I've been able to finish this book and that that

749
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:07.039
it's connecting is because the backstory of this, the the

750
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.559
loss of land after the Mexican American War, and just

751
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:15.280
the irony that like the Spanish land Grand people, they

752
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.039
stole the land from the Indians and that that was okay,

753
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:19.559
and then they had it stolen from them and that

754
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:20.519
that wasn't okay.

755
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.800
Like just right right, like only we can steal land,

756
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.800
not you clean right, you know, like yes, it was.

757
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:31.400
It was the racism that they endured was was, you know,

758
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:33.840
really fucked up and wrong. And yet also they stood

759
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.719
on that racism on different Yeah. So that irony is

760
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:40.159
something that I really wanted to figure out a way

761
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:42.519
to explore in fiction, and I couldn't ever figure out

762
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.840
a vehicle to do it. And so when I decided

763
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:47.920
that I wanted to write this one, and I knew

764
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.239
that I wanted it to be Gothic because it just

765
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:52.599
lends itself to Gothic, I was like, well, Gothic is

766
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:56.239
about being haunted by the past. Oh okay, now I

767
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:59.639
can finally write my my, my story about the ironies

768
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:03.079
of colonization and the Californios and the land loss. And

769
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:06.000
so I mean, I feel like that's so much of

770
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:10.280
what makes uh a story. A story's heartbeat is when

771
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.679
it's like I've been wanting to say this for forerever,

772
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.440
I finally forgid.

773
00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:19.000
Yeah, and I have to say that that for sure

774
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.119
comes across reading reading the book.

775
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.599
Yeah, thank you, I'm very glad it does.

776
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:33.400
This feels like a good wrapping up point. But before

777
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.079
we do that, was there anything else you wanted to

778
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.199
mention about the book to the listeners that we haven't

779
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:38.800
brought up.

780
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:42.760
Let's see, we chad a lot plenty of things. I

781
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.719
think that there's there's one thought that's kind of sematically

782
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:49.719
connected to what we've been talking about, which is that,

783
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:52.599
you know, I wrote this book for a bunch of

784
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.960
different reasons. We've been talking about a lot of them,

785
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.199
but that one of the things that I really hope

786
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.119
is that this book will find people who I mean,

787
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.920
you guys are basically like the poor readership for this book.

788
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.159
Yes, yes, right, specific actually.

789
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:09.360
The two of you.

790
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:12.519
Because I was thinking about I think that was like,

791
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:13.920
I have to write this for Carmen, and.

792
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:20.199
I mean I actually was thinking about particular. But yes,

793
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.400
but look, there are Latinas who grew up reading Jane

794
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.760
Eyre and Wuthering heights and grew up reading all that.

795
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:31.320
I mean, that's why he said, Garcia, like they grew

796
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:34.320
up reading that stuff too, and they were able to

797
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:38.800
to to go, yeah, okay, fine, but we're here too, right,

798
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:44.760
and yeah because of the space that those writers took up,

799
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:48.280
like they they carved out space for the rest of us.

800
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:53.480
And I'm so grateful that they did that. And I

801
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.480
wanted to That's what I also wanted to do. I

802
00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:57.880
wanted to I'm looking right now my copy of Jane

803
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:01.559
Air and across the room, my very well worn copy

804
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:05.400
of Jan here. And you know, I what I kept

805
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.079
thinking about is, all right, you got all these books

806
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:10.440
that are about like, you know, women running from houses, right,

807
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.280
like women running from uh down their stone steps in

808
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.639
the middle of the night. They're flimsy night, guess right.

809
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.880
And what I wanted to do is be like, okay,

810
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.920
but just who was scrubbing all those nightgowns?

811
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:24.519
Yes?

812
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.760
And what do they bring to the story. So if

813
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.400
you've ever if that question sounds up trigging to you,

814
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.239
or if you ever had that question yourself, or if

815
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.320
you are the ones who scrub the nightgowns that are

816
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:37.880
pissed off that you don't get to be on the

817
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.039
page all the above, Like I think that's that's who

818
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.320
I wrote it for. Everybody else is invited to read

819
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.360
it as well, right, like it's it's a big party.

820
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:48.360
There's room for everyone. But that's who I'm really hoping

821
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:49.119
to connect with.

822
00:44:50.639 --> 00:45:01.559
Oh, yes, yes, before we go, we always like to

823
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:05.639
do a speaker recommendation. Obviously is like our top recommendation

824
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.079
because it's so good. But do you have any speaker

825
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:10.199
recommendations yourself?

826
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.239
Let's see? All right, well I will go with one

827
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:17.480
that I just finished reading yesterday, which is Japanese Gothic

828
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:28.760
by and well it shouldn't. I will say that, don't

829
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.159
read anything more about the plot than like what's in

830
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.119
the jacket. The jacket was helpful to me, you know,

831
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:36.480
to help me figure out this was the kind of

832
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.760
book I would like to read. But her writing is

833
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:45.079
so good. It's very sparse and sharp and uh and

834
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.519
she really challenges you and keeps you in your toes

835
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:53.159
and the let's see, I will I will be very

836
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:57.719
circumspect about which characters this is about, but she is

837
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:04.000
so good at creating monstrous characters. So excited, yes, excited,

838
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:05.960
I think you will dig it. I think your listeners

839
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:08.360
will dig it. And yeah, I just finished it yesterday

840
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:09.679
and it's still around in my head.

841
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:15.039
Okay, yes, I need to move it up in my TVR.

842
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:16.679
Japanese.

843
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.280
Got one of my holes just cleared up, so I'm

844
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:19.639
going to put a hold on that one next.

845
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:20.320
Nice.

846
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:20.760
Nice.

847
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.719
I'm staring at like three library books stepped on top

848
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.440
of each other that like, and then there's another in

849
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.400
my backpack, and then the other library patrons are like,

850
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.199
if you're not going to finish it, would you please

851
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:32.679
let me.

852
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:36.400
Actually have a library book in my house that I

853
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:38.400
need to like give back because I haven't, so I

854
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.760
need to sign it on that go to the library.

855
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:45.239
I've been extending the I've been renewing the borrow to

856
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.000
not like go back and return. Oh my god, because

857
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.239
I need it for an episode, so for our history podcast.

858
00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:55.559
So is it? Oh my god, I can't remember the

859
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:59.400
name of it. Something with his pistols in his hand.

860
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:03.920
It's about a America parets when it's postil in his end.

861
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:07.519
Oh wait, is that the author? Oh yes, I was

862
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:10.159
thinking that the outlaws name. But yeah, that that is?

863
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:11.199
That has to be it with.

864
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:14.880
Well, it's about Cortes. Oh, my Godia Cortes.

865
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:18.079
Yes, that is yeah, He's been on my list of

866
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:20.360
topics to do for so long, and I borrowed the book,

867
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:23.400
but then I got distracted and I got a book

868
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:27.840
about Berta and that took up like way longer, like

869
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:29.679
and it was gonna be one episode, and then it

870
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.599
turned into five episodes of Historia as a Known or

871
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:36.039
history podcast and so, and that put my put a

872
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:39.519
hold on my research about Gregorio Cortez. But he hasn't

873
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.960
been on my on my list, like that was supposed

874
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.159
to be an episode like months ago.

875
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:47.559
Well, I will be very eager to hear it when

876
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:51.440
you do it, because I so when we were growing up,

877
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.920
you know, like Cable would just show the same movie

878
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.079
and over again for a while. It was The Ballad

879
00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.320
of Gregoria Cortes with Edward James almost yeah, and so

880
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:01.679
I remember, like all I remember was that there was

881
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:03.840
a whole thing about mistranslation, and that that was a

882
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:07.280
huge engine in the plotter a huge pivotal point in

883
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.519
the plot. But I don't remember a lot of the details.

884
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.119
So I will very eagerly listen to that episode and

885
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:13.719
learn all this.

886
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:16.199
But I need to read it, so I'm not giving

887
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:19.519
it back. But that wasn't even my recommendation. I was

888
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:25.719
gonna recommend Marama. It's a anti colonial horror, a gothic horror,

889
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:32.480
a Maori story. The director is it's his directorial debut.

890
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.000
I forgot his name. I knew it. I made a

891
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.719
video about it, and I knew his name in the video.

892
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.920
But apparently it's a very like deep personal story to

893
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.920
his family as well. But it follows Mary Stevens, who

894
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:51.880
is Maudi, but she was like adopted by an English family,

895
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:55.480
so her name isn't actually Mary Stevens. That was the

896
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.880
name given to her. And she receives a letter from English.

897
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.800
I don't remember the guy's name, but some English guy,

898
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:04.679
and he sends her a letter like hey, I can

899
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.880
tell you more. It's like a more fancy letter, but

900
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:10.760
so it doesn't actually say, hey, hey girl, I can

901
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.719
tell you more about your family because I know, and

902
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:15.760
if you want to know, you need to come here

903
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.960
to this house. And it's like this mansion on a hill,

904
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:24.039
like this creepy, you know, English mansion, and it's like

905
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.880
Victorian England is the time that it's set in. It

906
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.639
was shown at the International Film festival here in Seattle,

907
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:33.159
and that's how I got to see it because it

908
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:38.280
has such a limited release. But if anyone finds showings

909
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:41.239
near you, like a showing near you, I highly highly

910
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:44.480
recommend it. It was a slow burn, as you know Gothic

911
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:49.679
usually is, but when it gets there, oh glorious, and

912
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.320
it doesn't shy away from like the horrors of British

913
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:57.039
colonization at all. It like just puts it right in

914
00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.239
your face, like this is the horrible shit they did.

915
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.039
At the same time, it shows you the strength of

916
00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:06.880
like the of Maudi women like it's it's it was

917
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.599
such a good movie. And just the image like when

918
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:13.360
you look up Marama you see her in her red dress, uh,

919
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:15.480
and it's just such a like gothic horror scene, like

920
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.599
a beautiful, gorgeous red dress and like a woman in

921
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.000
this house, you know, like a big house. Though highly

922
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.039
highly recommend it.

923
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:25.280
I'm looking it up right now. I've seen a little

924
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:27.800
bit about it, and then I forgot about it, and

925
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:32.119
so that's a mussy Yes, I thank you so much

926
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.920
for nudging me about that.

927
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:35.880
Welcome.

928
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:37.519
Do you have one carbon?

929
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.760
I don't have a speak recommendation, So like a scene

930
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:46.000
already said my recommendation would be Munyaka, and we already

931
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:50.599
talked all about it, So just go read it. Yes,

932
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.440
by the time this is out, it should be available,

933
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:55.400
because this is going to be this Friday, or it

934
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:58.719
should be available next week. I think whenever you hear it,

935
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.679
just go preorder it, go go get it.

936
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:04.519
And I loved myself June second, June second, and I.

937
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:05.199
Love my second.

938
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.679
So please ask your local library to carry it if

939
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:12.719
it doesn't already, because I prajeictally grew up in the

940
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.440
library and I really want to.

941
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:16.960
Oh my god, we did too. We spent so much

942
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:20.280
time in the Oakland Library, the one on what's that street.

943
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.920
It's like, I know the bus would pass by it too,

944
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:27.280
but it's the did you tate the forty yes? Yeah, yeah,

945
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.400
so the one on the school near it? Yeah?

946
00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:32.159
Yeah, that was my house when I lived on forty

947
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:35.480
seventh Avenue. Yeah, it's still there. The Mountain's Library. Yeah,

948
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:36.719
it's beautiful. I love building.

949
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.000
I love that. It is a beautiful building.

950
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:40.360
Yeah.

951
00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:43.519
Spent all summer long there, we really did.

952
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:47.639
Yeah, it's a beautiful place to spend the summer. Nostalgic. Okay,

953
00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:51.679
I'm sure you guys are too, that was your childhood?

954
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:55.800
No, yeah, yeah, we even volunteered there a few times,

955
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:00.519
like because so I, oh, I don't know what happened

956
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:02.119
that I turned a book in late and then I

957
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:04.119
had late fees and so I was paying it off

958
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.639
and you and our brother were just coming along. Oh okay,

959
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:14.800
why volunteer there? Then? Yeah, I forgot that, that's why. Okay.

960
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.519
Oh and then one more thing before we go, is

961
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:21.199
there anywhere that our listeners can either you know, follow

962
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:23.119
you if you want to be found on social media,

963
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:24.440
or follow your work?

964
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:28.599
So I have the world jankiest website because I hate

965
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:32.199
website anything. I hate updating my website, So keep your

966
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:35.119
expectations very low and you'll be all right. And it's

967
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:40.159
Cynthia says boo dot WordPress dot com. And slightly that's Jankie.

968
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:44.119
Is the blue Sky account that I have and that

969
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.920
I update more often because it's easier. So yes, but

970
00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:52.079
I do have like my my events and public appearances.

971
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:54.440
I'm going to be doing a thing at local library September,

972
00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:55.199
so I'm really excited.

973
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:58.519
Oh oh well, okay, and if.

974
00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:00.679
You are a barrier person, you and also come and

975
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.400
see my book release party on June twelfth's, which is

976
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.239
how Pegas's books in Berkeley.

977
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:10.800
Oh oh, Carmen, you better go. I'm gonna try. I'm

978
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:11.360
gonna try to go.

979
00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:15.559
You're hardly invited to get twelve, but i know Modesta is.

980
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:18.119
A trip, so and I'm like, Carmen, you better go.

981
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.000
Oh okay, Well we'll put that information in the show notes.

982
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.000
And on that note, I don't know. I'm trying to

983
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:29.360
figure out a way too. As they watch out for

984
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:30.960
the dolls in your house.

985
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.039
Don't be mean to dolls, don't be mean to children,

986
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:40.360
don't be greedy, respect women, and you should be just fine.

987
00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:46.320
Yeah, perfect, yes, perfect, and say spooky my my Hie

988
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:50.480
Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and

989
00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:54.079
edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with the

990
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.760
help of Don Shout out with Don. If you're enjoying

991
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.239
the podcast considerably, gonna say five star review, we would

992
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:01.519
really appreciate it. If you don't want to the professonal review,

993
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:03.679
just don't leave a review, but don't leave anything lower

994
00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:05.960
than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out

995
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.639
to the podcast at a spookytos at gmail dot com.

996
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:10.920
You can go to our website at pookitos dot com

997
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:13.320
and fill out the contact form. If you want to

998
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.960
support the podcast, you can join our Patreon where we

999
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:20.159
send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get

1000
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:23.519
an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I got new ones

1001
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.400
and these ones are huge. And if you want to support,

1002
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:28.400
but you can or don't want to join the Patreon,

1003
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:31.320
that's fine too. You can also get some merch. You

1004
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:35.000
can find suret Says say a Spooky and old English letters.

1005
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:37.800
There's a beanie. I love the beanie. There's also a hat.

1006
00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:42.800
There's a no Mamas shirt which is a fan favorite.

1007
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.519
There's a lot of options, crap TOMPs, sweaters. It's almost

1008
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:48.960
swetter weather. We're nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get

1009
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:50.960
your hoodies. You're gonna need them. If you don't want

1010
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:52.960
to do all that, that's fine too. You can just

1011
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.639
listen like you're listening now, and that's the best support

1012
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.400
that you can give us, like I always say in

1013
00:54:57.519 --> 00:55:00.199
our ad break and yeah, if you like history, can

1014
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:05.360
follow Estoria's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, and you can

1015
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:07.599
find as Spooky Tells on all of our socials at

1016
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.559
a Spooky Tells All. This is in the show notes

1017
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:14.360
and we appreciate every single listen. Thank you so much,

1018
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:18.880
Stay a Spooky