Jan. 9, 2026

The Case of Anastasio Hernandez Rojas

The Case of Anastasio Hernandez Rojas
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Anastasio Hernandez Rojas was killed by border patrol officers in May 2010. He was handcuffed and beaten and tased multiple times until he died from a heart attack. Carmen and Cristina share this case, IT IS A VERY HEAVY CASE, listen with caution/care. 

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Sources

Critical Incident Death at the Border Documentary
https://www.southernborder.org/anastasio_hernandez_rojas 
https://refugees.org/u-s-border-patrol-found-responsible-for-the-fatal-abuse-of-anastasio-hernandez-rojas/ 
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/alliancesandiego/legacy_url/1324/Anastasio-Complaint-FINAL-160329.pdf?1490744367 
https://www.oas.org/en/iachr/decisions/2025/US_14.042_EN.PDF
https://www.alliancesd.org/rodney_scott_nomination_statement
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/ECC8BF6783058183A59A5D06DF74E036/S2071832220000280a.pdf/div-class-title-hard-protection-through-soft-courts-span-class-italic-non-refoulement-span-before-the-united-nations-treaty-bodies-div.pdf
Crossing the line (PBS doc): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUyy85t8E_U&t=62s
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/03/28/border-agents-beat-an-undocumented-immigrant-to-death-the-u-s-is-paying-his-family-1-million/

WEBVTT

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Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is

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the Spooky Tales, the podcast for all things as spooky,

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true crime, hunted places, myths, legends in Latin America. And

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I have to warn everyone right now, today's case involves

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one of the biggest criminals, because we can't be a

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true crime podcast if we don't talk about one of

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the biggest criminal gangs in the US. Yeah, one of

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the most violent criminal gangs in the United States who

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has operated with impunity and committed atrocities and terror across

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the United States and even past the United States. So

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I'm combining the two the two gangs, Oh, we're counting

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them together. They actually acted together for this case. So yeah,

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across United States Ice and Border Patrol. I was saying, yes,

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we are talking about them. Yeah, yeah, we are. So

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if that's something that you can't hear right now, understandable

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skip this episode. It's so infuriating, especially given today's horrible news.

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Today is January seventh, twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six.

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What day it was? It's not twenty twenty five anymore. Yeah,

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so today's January fifth, January seventh, twenty twenty six. I

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already said sorry. Seventh. Anyway, we found out today dot

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Ice shot a woman, Renee and Nicole Good, thirty seven

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years old. They shot her point blank in the face

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today in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Yeah. Yes, and today's case. Actually,

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you will see the similarities between the case we're talking

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about today and what happened today the time of recording.

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But again, if you're not in the right headspace to

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hear it, skip this episode come back to it later.

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It is an important case to familiarize yourself with. But again,

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infuriating completely. Yeah. Also, sorry if I sound weird, I

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just got in middleline. So just if I thank you

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said everyone out there. I feel like I feel like

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I don't, but whatever I think you do. Okay, let's

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get into this. On May twenty eighth, twenty ten, a

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man was heard screaming a blood curdling scream on the

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Sandy Zero point of Entry when i'sis saw a group

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of Border Patrol agents gigging up on a man tasing

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him and when they attempted to intervene, their phones were

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taken and they were threatened. According to the Border Patrol,

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they were actually saving this man's life. He was actually

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the one heard in himself until he died. But before

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we get to that day, let's talk about the man.

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Anatasio and Nandez Rocaz was born on May second, nineteen

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sixty eight, in San Luis, Potosi. He had eight siblings,

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of which he was the third oldest. When Anatasio was fifteen,

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he immigrated to the United States to find work and

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help support his family, and he settled in San Diego, California,

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where years later, at the age of twenty one, he

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met Maria de Jesutzbuga, who would later become his wife.

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They went on to have five kids over the course

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of twenty years, Yami, Daisy, Fabian, and twins Danielle and Daniela.

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His friends described him as fun and jobio. He was

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a loving, attentive father, active in his children's lives. He

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planned family out into the beach park, the movies, He

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colored with his kids, and they tried to eat meals

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together as often as a cut as a family. He

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worked as a whole a little and picked up work

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in construction and demolition when he could, but on May tenth,

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twenty ten, unable to make ends meet, his desperation drove

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him to shoplift food from a grocery store. According to

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a PBS documentary titled Crossing the Line at the Border,

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he stole steak and tequila for a Mother's Day celebration. Yeah,

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maintenth is Mother's Day, so it makes sense. Yeah, and

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you know what, I die, I don't care that he's stole.

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I fully don't care that he's stole. And I don't

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care who has an opinion about us not caring that

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he stole. I don't give not one fuck. He was

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arrested and once in custody, his immigration status was checked,

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and after law enforcement found out he was undocumented, he

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was deported to Mexico two weeks later on May twenty eighth,

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and Asasio tried to re enter the United States with

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his brother. I mean, of course, this is yet another

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thing that does not matter to me, I know, And

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that's what I'm saying, Like, of course he did. His

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family was here, his life was here. Yeah, they should

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just let him in. I mean I'm saying, and again,

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I do not care who is mad at us saying that. No, truly, Like,

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go argue with yourself. It's like one time we got

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our Spotify comment that was like and what are people

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supposed to do, or what is the US supposed to do?

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Just let everyone in. I was like, I really don't care.

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I don't care. I think that they should let anybody

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whose countries they have fucked up in. I mean, and

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I am in agreeance. And that's almost the whole world.

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And whose fault is that? The United States? Yeah, that's

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not my fault. That's when it ta his fault. Yeah,

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I truly don't like. They're like, oh, you sound so

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dumb for saying borders should be open, and I was like,

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I don't care, and I will continue to repeat that.

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But Anastasio was quickly apprehended and taken to the true

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La Vista border patrol station and driven to the deportation

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gate at sanny Cidro. This is also known as the

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way Ski two section of the sanny carl point of entry.

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From watching the documentary and I'm talking about the HBO

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documentary Critical Incident Death at the Border. From watching the documentary,

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it looked like they started, or it seemed like the

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physical abuse started at the point of entry. But from

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reading the complaint which we'll talk about later filed with

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in International Commission, it actually began at the border station

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there at the border station, Anastasio was beaten, tortured, and

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suffocated by a border patrol agent. It began at the

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border station, but we'll get into that what happen there

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a little bit later. But once he was taken to

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the sunny Zerol point of entry, Anasassio was beaten, tortured,

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and suffocated by Border patrol agents until he stopped breathing.

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Anasasio was handcuffed during this and despite being unarmed and

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physically incapable of fighting back, border patrol agents punched, kicked,

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dragged taste, and hogg tight Anasassio. If that wasn't enough,

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they also denied an Asasio medical care. An Assassio sustained

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severe injuries, including five broken ribs and hemorrhagene of internal organs.

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A few days later, on May thirty first, twenty ten,

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an Assassio succumbed to his injuries and was taken off

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live support. He was forty two years old at the

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time of his death. From there, the Border Patrol tried

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to cover everything up, and a years long battle ensued,

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which uncovered a shadow organization within the Border Patrol and

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culminated at an international human rights court. Now we were

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to ask the Border Patrol agent what led to an

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Asasio's death. They would say that it was actually Anastasio's

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own fault that he died. Agents involved in his murder

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stated they were trying to save him from himself. Their

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literal words that they had to tie his hand behind

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his back because he was hurting himself and all the

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injuries that he succumbed to were of his own doing.

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So what happened on that day, it actually took years

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to be together. His family was left in the dark

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for a long time. They had to filed a lawsuit

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and then another to just get information. Their lawyer, Jean Iredale,

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requested evidence, which Border Patrol failed to turn over. They

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also failed Bord Patrol also failed to call San Diego PD,

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which should have been contacted the day of the incident

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as it happened. Really, instead, their own team called the

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Critical Incident Team CIT, swept in and got rid of

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all incriminating evidence, which is their job or was to

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cover up things done by Border Patrol and or was

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it just Border Patrol or his ice too from what

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I knew this Border Patrol, But more than that later,

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Let's get into the day first, Like we mentioned, earlier.

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Anastasio was apprehended on May twenty eight, twenty ten, and

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then transported to the Chuo Lavisa Border Patrol Facility and

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detention Center, which we'll just refer to either as detention

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center or to Larisa facility, either one. He was searched

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and then directed by Border Patrol agent Gabriel Ducing. The

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ucing Gabriel du Coin to throw his water away instead

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of throwing the bottle in the trash, Anastasio poured out

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the water from his jug into the trash can, and

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this made officer to Coin angry that he didn't just

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throw the bottle away, that he emptied it, so then

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the officer slapped the water jug out of Anastasio's hand,

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hands pushed Anastasio into a wall and then repeatedly kicked

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his ankles to make Anasasio stand with his ankles apart,

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but from the moment he was pushing into the wall

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and Assassio was already standing and with his ankle's apart,

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But the agent kept kicking and kicking, and Astasia cried out,

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why are you doing this to us? Why are you

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hitting us? We haven't done anything wrong, to which officer

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Ducoin replied, you don't want to be beaten. Then he

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handcuffed Anastasio and took him to an interview room. In

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that room, Anastasio complained that Officer Ducoin injured his ankle

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and that it was hurting, especially because he had previously

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broken this ankle. He also requested to appear before an

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immigration judge, but all of his complaints on requests were dismissed,

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and according to Border Patrol policy, officer Ducoin was supposed

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to inform his supervisor that Anasasio had a complain about

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mistreatment and request medical attention. He did neither. An Aastasio

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was then taken to a processing area where he was

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handcuffed to a bench. There, he requested medical treatment again.

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He asked for a phone call, and he attempted to

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assert his right to appear before an immigration judge, and

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once again complained about the mistreatment that he was receiving.

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After sitting on that bench handcuffed through hours, the facility supervisor,

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officer Ismael Finn, spoke with Anastasio, who once again requested

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medical care and complained about mistreatment. The supervisor dismissed these

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complaints again and then told his agents to immediately remove

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Anastasio from the United States, so agent Philip Krasile Wicks

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and get Real Ducoin were the ones transporting Anastasio. These

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two agents had already up to that point expressed anger

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and disdain towards Anastasio. They later not at this point,

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but they would later say Anastasio did not behave like

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a quote typical alien end quote during processing, that he

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did not comply like a typical alien, but instead because

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instead of quietly facing the wall when instructed to do so,

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Anastasio talked loudly, looked directly at the agents and complained

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about the treatment he was being subjected to, just because

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he spoke up about being hurt, like they want people

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to shut up and take it. Yeah, they both felt

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that Anastasio did not grant them the respect they deserved.

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You deserve it zero respect. You deserve full disrespect from

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anybody that's ses you. Yeah, they considered Anastasio disrespectful and problematic,

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and that's why he had been arranged for immediate removal,

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as opposed to his brother, who remained at the facility.

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Prior to entering the agent's vehicle for transportation, Anathasio was

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already seen limping, and that can be seen in the footage. Yes,

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the agents took Anastasio to an area known as Whiskey Too.

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This was the primary area of deportations, also called the

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Deportation Gate. It is an enclosed area and only federal

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officials have access to it. So when they arrived at

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Whiskey Too, the pair of agents removed Anastasso's handcuffs. When

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they removed his handcuffs, they stated that Anastasio lowered his

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hands down to his hips instead of raising them to

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the top of his head as he had been told

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to do. They also stated he was moving around too much.

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And so these two things were like acts of violence

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to the Border patrol agents. It was their excuse in

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their reason to act the way they did exactly. And

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so then they grabbed Anastasio, and according to them, a

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quote struggle ensued end a quote. So two not border patrol,

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but two Ice agents Andre Piligrino and Harinto Narra and

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Nessink intervened. These Ice officers you their steel batons to

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hate Anastasio, and their blows struck Anastasio in the chest.

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The Ice agents continued to hit Anastassio until the pair

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of Border patrol officers were like stop stop, oh, I

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didn't know that, mm hmm. And what they claimed happened

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doesn't add up. They have contradicting statements because they're made up, yes,

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because they're lying. Ice agents Pilogrino and Nara and nes

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Singh stated that Anastasio punched all four agents. Mind you,

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footage shows that he's handcuffed this whole time. We at

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this point, he had not been handcuffed yet. Oh ic

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ic Yeah, yeah, they unhandcuffed him. But however, it's one

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guy and for law enforcement personnel. So that's what they claimed,

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that he had punched all four of them. Border Patrol

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agents to Coin and krasile Wigs stated that Anastasio did

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not punch any of them. Each one of them stated

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that all five of them then fell to the ground

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after Anastasio punched them, and that Anastasio had landed on

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his stomach, and that's when Border Patrol agent Derek Llewellyn arrived.

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When they were all on the ground, that's when he

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Llewellyn handcuffed Anastassio's hands behind him behind his back. Then

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agents Decoin, krasau Wicks and Pellegrino pressed on him while

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Anastasio was fased down. They held him by the legs,

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the waist and his side. This is when Anastasio began

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to cry out for help in Spanish. This drew people

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together on a pedestrian bridge that overlooked Whiskey two, and

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this is when the crowd began to record the incident. Meanwhile,

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two more Border Patrol agents arrived at the scene. They

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were Alan Boutwell and Kurt Sower, and these two joined

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the other five. So now there's seven trying to force

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Anastassio into the backseat of their suv vehicle, which they

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couldn't do because Anastasio had his feet against the door.

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Then they dragged Anastasio, who was still hot ncuoked, behind

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the suv. They placed him face down on the ground. Again,

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can I interject really quick with something? So I feel

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like some people might question, like, oh, well, why was

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he resist? Obviously you know this is what they say.

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Why was he resisting? Why wouldn't you put his feet

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against the door like that? But maybe in his head

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it's like a like a response fear response. Right, he

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probably thought and they these people did, right. He probably

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thought they were going to kill him. So he's like,

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why would I get in the car with them. Right,

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these agents already had it out for him from the station,

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and then these two are the ones instructed to take

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him out. I would be fearing for my life too.

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They were already abusing him at the station. Yeah, So

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now they dragged him behind the suv. They placed him

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face down on the ground again. Then, according to witnesses,

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they kneeled on the back of Anastasio's neck and his

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lower back while other agents continued to punch and step

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on his back and his head. According to witnesses, Anastasio

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never tried to harm the officers. And then two more

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vehicles arrived and I'm like, how many people is enough?

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Like this is just out of control. Yeah. One of

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the officers from this pair of vehicles got out of

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the vehicle, ran straight to Anastasio, who was still on

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the ground, and kicked him hard like a soccer kick,

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is how the witnesses described it. This is a fucking

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game to them. Yeah, no, they truly they And even

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now there's reports of ICE agents who literally like they

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view everything like as a game, Like they kill people,

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they harm people, and they laugh and then they know

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that it's gonna get go viral on social media and

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they're like excited about the potential of going viral. Yeah.

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Then Border Patrol agent Jerry Valles began to yell stop resisting,

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even though at this point Anastasio was handcuffed and not

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moving at all. And from that video there's like people screaming,

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like when it's it's saying he's on the ground, he's

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not moving. What do you mean, stop resisting? Yes, more

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agents have arrived by now, so now there's somewhere between

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fifteen to twenty five Border Patrol and Ice on the scene.

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Jerry Valles then warned the rest of the officers that

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he was going to use his taser. The group of

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officers then surrounded Anastasio, partially blocking the view of the

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eyewitnesses who were up on the bridge. However, someone did

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manage to record this and capture as Jerry Vallis tasted

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Anastasio multiple times while Anastasio was on the ground in

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a fetal position, still handcuffed. Border Patrol agent Jerry Valez

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used his taser at least four times, and this was

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proven by using the taser's log This is a program

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on the taser itself that records every time it's used

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and for how long. And according to that log, the

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first two shots for five seconds, the third was thirteen seconds,

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and the fourth was twelve seconds long. And at least

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two of those shocks were successful. The other two might

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have been not like success not hit him hm. The

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last shock was done in drivesten mode, which means direct

295
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contact without probes the taser's probes, and so the taser

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is then pressed directly against the skin. And when in

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drivesten mode, a taser should never be used on the head,

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back of the neck, the trachia, or the chest. And

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if you guess that officer Valles uses taser in drivestnd

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mode directly on on Astasio's chest, you would be correct.

301
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That is exactly what he did. Anastasio then convulse until

302
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the taser was removed. And there is a recording of this.

303
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There's a recording of all of this taking place. It's

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quite terrible. I'm not priority. Yeah, I will not be

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playing in an audio of that at all. Yeah, there

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was links in the show notes if you want to

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look at it again. It is quite horrible to hear,

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but you hear these desperate screens In Spanish, no no

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no qita, no the me no, no, no, ma, ma

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madre and in English, what did I do? Help me? Please,

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help me? You're treating me like an animal. No, no, no,

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take him off me, no mom, mother, Just these desperate

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cries again, and I'm like, you have to see someone

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as an object, as trash in order to hear these

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please and not stop. And so it doesn't matter the

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amount of training that they do, like they dehumanize migrants

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and brown people and anyone opposing them now at this point,

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as we have seen from today's news as not as humans,

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and so any police to humanity, it doesn't matter because

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they don't see you as equal to them, and so

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they just treat you however they want, yes, exactly, having

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the ability to ignore please like this, it cannot be reformed.

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There is no reforming this organization. As we have said

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time and time again. And between Anastasio's cries for help,

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officers can be heard yelling stop resisting, while the crowd

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is yelling leave him alone. He's not resisting. Why are

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you using exact excessive force? He is not resisting. And

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these people's screams sound desperate. They are watching someone be murdered. Yeah,

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After the final incident, of the taser being used, officers

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swarmed Anastasio and pressed him down with knees on his

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head and his back. As they did this, they also

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punched him repeatedly in the ribs again online video. At

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some point, they pulled his pants down and zip tied

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his ankles together, howg tying him. After they howg tied

335
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him like this, they all stood up and they nudged

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him so kicked him with their feet and Anastasio at

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this point was not moving at all. After they realized

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he wasn't moving at all, they still waited two more

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minutes before beginning CPR. Fifteen minutes after this, an ambulance

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arrived and after some back and forth, was finally able

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to actually attend to him and put him in the

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ambulance and take him to the Chula Vista Hospital. At

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the hospital, the extent of his injuries became apparent. There

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were bruises pretty much all over his body, bruises and

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cuts everywhere. He had five broken ribs, visible taser marks,

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one on one of his butt cheeks as well, so

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his brain had gone without oxygen for eight minutes. At

348
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some point during the repeated tasing and beating, he had

349
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a heart attack. At the hospital, he was diagnosed with

350
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a noxic brain injury, which means death of brain cells

351
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due to lack of oxygen. He was on life support

352
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for a little bit until he went into a sister

353
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le also called cardiac standstill, which most of us would

354
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recognize as flatlining. He was pronounced dead at four thirty

355
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pm on May thirty first, twenty ten, and while in

356
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the hospital, border patrol was guarding his room. Oh, I

357
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:04.519
was gonna ask if you are I don't know if

358
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bringing against this later, but in the documentary they Maria

359
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:13.960
talks about how the police went to inform her that

360
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Anassasio was in the hospital, but all they told her

361
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.039
was that he had gone into a fight. Oh, yes,

362
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.279
that is in my notes. Ya okay, So yeah, in

363
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the hospital, border patrol was guarding his room and only

364
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.680
allowed family to see him after the Mexican consulate and

365
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.400
immigrant rights activists got involved. Before that, they did not

366
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let Maria, his wife, or Bernardo, his brother, into the room,

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and they had told her when they told her that

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he was in the hospital, they had only told her

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that he had been in a fight and nothing else. So,

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of course, when she was finally able to enter the room.

371
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The state in which she found her husband was truly

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shocking because of Border Patrol having guarded the room for

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so long, only Maria and two of the oldest kids

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were able to see him before he died, and even then,

375
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these kids' last image of their father was traumatizing. I

376
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:13.519
saw the image of him in the hospital and it's impactful.

377
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.079
It's hard to look at he looks, he's in a

378
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terrible condition, and his children, only two of them could

379
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:24.960
see and actually see him and say goodbye, but still

380
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:29.920
seeing this is traumatizing. The youngest three didn't have a

381
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:37.880
chance to say goodbye. And before we get into the

382
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.359
autopsy and what his death certificate said was the cause

383
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:46.079
of death, let's talk about what was supposed to happen.

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After Anastasio had been taken to the hospital. The San

385
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.440
Diego Police Department Homicide Unit should have been informed of

386
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:59.440
what took place so that our criminal investigation could begin.

387
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.599
This didn't happen. Border Patrol didn't inform SDPD of the

388
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:09.200
incident until late morning in May twenty ninth, and Border

389
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Patrol and sdpt's initial reports described the Nastasio as a suspect,

390
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:19.119
and the officers as victims of battery. Bullshit, how do

391
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.559
you haven't describe a man in the hospital as the

392
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:28.880
so crazy suspect. Yeah. A full day after the incident,

393
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:34.079
SDPD secured the crime scene and took witness statements, which

394
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:38.039
were all from Border patrol and ICE agents. These interviews

395
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.799
took less than fifteen minutes, and not even all the

396
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:46.279
agents involved were interviewed. And this includes the two that

397
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.519
ICE agents that had arrived to Coin and the other

398
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.759
one that had arrived and started hitting in with the batons.

399
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.759
They weren't interviewed. They weren't no, okay, yeah, and their

400
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:03.599
names were kept hitten for a very long time. Years yes, years. Yeah,

401
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:08.000
it's literally until the civil lawsuit. Not even Actually I

402
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.519
didn't think it was the when the DOJ started investigating,

403
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.720
when the names were finally revealed, if I'm remembering right, well,

404
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.880
I had an order of protection, So then was it

405
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.799
the civil laws sophistication? I think it was a civil lawsuit. Okay,

406
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:26.000
we'll get into this. Yeah. Also, while iceen Border patrols

407
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.039
were beating and tasing Anastasio, they had calls for more backup.

408
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.240
This backup then went onto the pedestrian bridge where people

409
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.440
were shouting at them to stop, and they confiscated cameras

410
00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:39.480
and cell phones. And the San Diego Police Department didn't

411
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:43.720
bother taking statements from these officers who did the confiscating,

412
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.079
So they were not interviewed, And of course neither were

413
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:50.079
the witnesses of the civilian witnesses who saw this. No,

414
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:53.759
none of them were interviewed at first. Within days of

415
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.480
Anastasio's death, the media was publishing articles referring to Anastasio

416
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.640
as quote violent and combat Oh my god, I didn't

417
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:06.200
know that. Yeah. And these articles also mentioned drugs or

418
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:11.359
mental disorders playing a role in his death. And are

419
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:16.400
you going to get into the autopsy? Yes, okay, And

420
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:18.759
these were lies. Of course. They tried to say he

421
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.119
was on meth, right, and that's what caused a heart attack. No,

422
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.640
And the thing they were counting as meth was a

423
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.319
medication given to him at the hostspital. Yeah, to treat him,

424
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:34.720
but to bullshit. Yes. Then just several days later, on

425
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:41.400
June ninth, Umberto navare Mendoza posted videos of the attack

426
00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:46.400
on Anastasio, as well as an audio recording of all

427
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:50.200
of it. He had witnessed the attack and managed to

428
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.880
hide his recording device from the officers who were confiscating

429
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:58.400
all of them. Once the video was out, that's when

430
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.119
the a s DPD actually took witness statements from civilians

431
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.680
who saw everything from the bridge. Before that, they hadn't

432
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.920
talked to any of them, and local press had also

433
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:13.440
been reporting eyewitness accounts before as DPD even tried to

434
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:18.640
reach out to witnesses who saw what happened. Umberto himself

435
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:21.039
and two others were interviewed as part of the San

436
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:25.839
Diego Police Department's investigation, and then in July of twenty ten,

437
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.000
they referred the case to the US Attorney's Office in

438
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.839
San Diego, who then, I guess just sat on it.

439
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.119
I believe in that documentary they mentioned this and that

440
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.319
the the choes to not prosecute right, which is sitting

441
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.440
on it, right not to do anything about it. Okay,

442
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.440
that makes sense. And right after he died, an Assassa's

443
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.480
family had tried contacting the Civil Rights Division of the

444
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.400
Department of Justice. The DOJ refused to provide his family

445
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.079
with any information about the investigation. The family continued to

446
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.279
attempt to contact did DJ through a representative throughout the

447
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:08.759
rest of twenty ten and twenty eleven. Then on April twentieth,

448
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:15.039
twenty twelve, PBS, the very same PBS who is losing

449
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:20.039
funding or is like officially out of funding, Yeah, as

450
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:24.279
a result of this current administration. But local PBS places

451
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:27.079
are still operating, Yes, but yeah, they lost their main

452
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:31.880
source of funding, This very same PBS. They released a

453
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:35.960
video of Border Patrol and Ice, you know, together beating

454
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:41.160
Anastasio and the servicing of this video. It took a

455
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.000
lot of work. Reporter John Carlos Frak, who has spent

456
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.720
his whole career reporting on Board Patrol, he began to

457
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.480
look into Anastasio's case shortly after his death, and he,

458
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.039
like everyone else, noticed that there was little to no

459
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.039
information from official sources. So he began to look for witnesses,

460
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.119
and it took him a month of investigating to find

461
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.519
a witness who had the video, but was afraid to

462
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.680
come forward at first. She was even too scared to

463
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.400
show him the video and instead she chose to just

464
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.599
describe what happened. And I mean, who can blame her?

465
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:17.279
She was only twenty two and she was scared. She

466
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:22.440
saw them be a man with no justification, no mercy.

467
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:27.079
Of course, she was scared exactly, and she was actually

468
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:32.039
visiting San Diego. She's a Seattle local. Oh, I didn't know,

469
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.680
And it's in the PBS documentary because she's in it.

470
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.519
She's not anonymous anymore and she's in the PBS documentary.

471
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.000
I'm going to watch that. But yeah, she's a Seattle

472
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.279
local visiting San Diego. And she was walking across the

473
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:47.880
bridge and she was like, I heard sounds that someone

474
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:51.640
was dying, someone was begging for help, and she took

475
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.759
out her camera and began to record, and she's in

476
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:56.799
the video. She can be heard yelling like leave him

477
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:01.559
alone too. And she saw border patrol lining everyone up

478
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.640
who was on the bridge and like take their phones.

479
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.519
And she at the last minute removed her as D card,

480
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.400
put it in her pocket and handed her phone over

481
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:14.240
and that's why she still had the footage. And it

482
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:18.960
took John two years to convince her to release the video,

483
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:21.119
and when he finally got it, it was sent on

484
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.599
a disk and an envelope with no return address. Like

485
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:28.160
that's how scared she was, yes, exactly, and yeah, the

486
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.519
video shows what we shared earlier. It shows the officers

487
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.559
screaming keep walking to bystanders. They're ganging up on him.

488
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.559
There's over fifteen of them. It shows him on the

489
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.599
ground the whole time, contradicting officers were yelling that he

490
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:48.240
stood up, tried to kick them. There's agents yelling quit resisting,

491
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.519
and he's just on the ground. And yeah, it's showing

492
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.559
them piling up on him, punching him, grabbing his pants.

493
00:32:56.839 --> 00:32:58.960
It shows all of this. And then they tried to

494
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.599
surround him, right, the witnesses wouldn't sea and not to

495
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.519
They were yelling, quit resisting, yes, to make it seem

496
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.440
like he was. And even then, yeah, even then, his

497
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:11.119
legs are pretty visible and he's not moving. Plus from

498
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:15.680
the top, no matter how you surround, you can't hide, no, exactly.

499
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:19.680
And at this point, now that the video is being

500
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:25.359
circulated and it moved people to protest, especially in San

501
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.640
Diego and in Mexico, protests were growing and so the

502
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.400
DOJ had no choice but to act. At this point,

503
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.400
even members of Congress were contacting the Department of Homeland

504
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:41.079
Security expressing their concern, and so finally, on May ninth,

505
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.359
twenty twelve, two years later, the family traveled to DC

506
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:48.960
to meet with investigators who had barely opened a criminal investigation.

507
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:56.079
And then the family remained in the dark. Jean Iredale

508
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.599
took over the case for them, like she he was

509
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.920
the family's lawyer, but he found Border Patrol was not

510
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:06.119
cooperating with anything. Pori Patrol refused to turn over any evidence,

511
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.480
any evidence that remained because they destroyed a lot of

512
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.360
the evidence. They claim to not understand what I cannot

513
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:15.960
breathe means in Spanish, so they didn't know he couldn't breathe.

514
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:18.920
They also stuck to their story of being concerned that

515
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.159
Anastasio was hurting himself and that's why he was being handcuffed.

516
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.559
And the documentary shows the depositions that Jean conducted with

517
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:33.400
the Border Patrol agents and he asks one of them

518
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:37.079
about the you know, the I cannot breathe statements, and

519
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.079
one of the agents respond saying, if you're talking, you

520
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:42.320
can breathe them, he can breathe, And I was like,

521
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.039
shut the fuck up, dude. They honestly, they pissed me

522
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.079
the fuck off, obviously, Like this is so infuriating, but

523
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:54.320
their carelessness, they don't give they don't care who they

524
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:59.760
hurt or who they kill. Yeah, they really don't. And yeah,

525
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.760
the only reason that this was even opened as a

526
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.559
case was because of the protests in both the US

527
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:10.039
and Mexico after PBS released the video, and so you know,

528
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:14.519
they did these depositions and then just like nothing happened

529
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:21.360
for a while. After five years since the day that

530
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:26.480
Anastasio died, the DOJ announced that the investigation was being closed,

531
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.000
and in their press releases they stated, so this is

532
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:35.280
twenty fifteen now. They stated that they had reviewed hundreds

533
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:40.480
of pages of evidence generated by SDPD investigators, and they

534
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:44.360
initiated an independent federal investigation into the incident, which included

535
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:48.159
federal law enforcement witness accounts, Mexican law enforcement winness accounts,

536
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:53.480
civil witness accounts, medical personnel accounts, medical records, autopsy reports,

537
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:59.239
official use of force training materials, and forensic evidence. But

538
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.239
it's like, okay, do not see the video then, like,

539
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:06.960
because that's very clearly it's very it's a video, like please,

540
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.559
But the press release described the incident as Anastasio having

541
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.800
been resisting and needing to be restrained, and that he

542
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.880
had continued to struggle and kick agents, which again the

543
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.679
video shows that he wasn't doing any of this, But

544
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:27.079
that's what the press release from the DOJ investigation that's

545
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.440
what they were releasing. The press release also stated that

546
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:36.159
the medical examiner said that Anastasio would not have died

547
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.760
if there had not been methamphetamine intoxication in like so

548
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:45.239
methavetomine in his system. But that's they said this in

549
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.159
their press release. But there was no It was a lie.

550
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:53.000
He was not intoxicated with methamphetamine. No so like. This

551
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.719
was not just an error, it was a strain up lie.

552
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.679
Two separate autopsies were done and both essentially said the

553
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.840
exact same thing. This was a homicide brought on by

554
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:07.760
the variety of restraints, the number of persons who beat him,

555
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:11.559
the fact he was prone and tasered, and if it

556
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.599
were not for the repeated blows and tasers, Anastasio would

557
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:21.400
still be alive. That was the conclusion of two separate autopsies.

558
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:28.480
And yet in their press release they said, oh, he

559
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.800
would have been alive if he didn't have methanist system,

560
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:35.920
which again he didn't. On top of the DOJ closing

561
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.679
the investigation, they also did not inform the family that

562
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.559
the statue of limitations for assault was five years and

563
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:44.920
they took so long with the investigation that the statute

564
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.000
of limitations was up anyway, so they didn't even have

565
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:55.039
They didn't wow, and that's because they took so long.

566
00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:59.920
They also in their press release stated that Border Patrol

567
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.840
they couldn't legally prove Border Patrol acted with force or

568
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.960
with malice, Like, oh, you're telling me, it's not force

569
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:11.639
or malice for twenty five agents to gang up on

570
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.079
one man who cannot physically fight back, and even if

571
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.280
we could, it would be no match for twenty five

572
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:23.320
people against one And it's not with force or malice.

573
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:27.559
They tasered him numerous times, that they kicked him in

574
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.880
the head, Like this is ridiculous. Yeah, and again, so

575
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:35.000
they said that there's no like, there was no evidence

576
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:39.360
to support that there was an abuse of force. But

577
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:43.000
the reason there was no evidence is because Border Patrol

578
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:50.559
themselves make sure there was no evidence in investigating Anastasio's death.

579
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.960
Reporter john Frey Carlos is connected to Gen Budd, a

580
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.360
former Bord Patrol officer turned whistleblower who we actually mentioned

581
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:01.639
a little bit in our last episode with Lonnie Schwartz

582
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.159
having fired into Mexico. That was episode two fifteen, and

583
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.000
so we did talk about her a little bit. She

584
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:11.679
has a book about this whistle blowing and border patrol

585
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:16.159
and stuff. She encouraged john Frey Carlos to find other

586
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:19.360
officers willing to talk, but he found that as soon

587
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.360
as he mentioned he was a reporter, every officer just

588
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.199
ended the call. Okay. So then during the course of

589
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:33.880
investigating and being connected with Jen Bud, Jen called john

590
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:38.280
Frey Carlos, so he was connected with her, and then

591
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:41.039
he was like, help me look into this. She suggested.

592
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:45.639
You know, he reached out to agents who all hung

593
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.039
up on him. I don't think I wrote it down,

594
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:53.000
But during the course of being connected together meeting investigating,

595
00:39:53.320 --> 00:40:02.800
she looked into the Border Patrols handbooks on violence and whatnot,

596
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:06.480
or just her general handbook, and she saw one mention

597
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.960
of something called critical Incident Teams, and it talked about

598
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:16.239
how they work, how they investigate border patrol incidents of

599
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:22.880
violence to mitigate civiliability, meaning their own fault, their own

600
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:29.239
doing wrongdoing. So then she says that she saw a

601
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:35.239
tweet on Twitter from a Border Patrol chief in Tucson

602
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:42.519
alluding to critical incident teams, and then so they're like talking.

603
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:44.119
He's like, but do you know, She's like, no, I'm

604
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:48.440
just suspecting because it sounds similar to this blah blah blah.

605
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.119
So like whatever case this persident was talking about sounder

606
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:55.480
similar to Anastasio's case. To her, yes, okay, So then

607
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:00.679
she assumed cis involved the Critical Incident teams. So then

608
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.519
this happened in Tucson, right, so then near Nogdalist whatever

609
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.519
it was. So then John Frey goes out to Nogalist,

610
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:13.960
talked to the police there and he found that the

611
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.440
police department was not allowed to investigate the case that

612
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:22.079
was similar to an Assatu's case. So then he and

613
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:23.760
I can't remember if this is the same incident, but

614
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.119
there was a woman who was shot in the head

615
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:28.360
by Border patrol and I believe it's the same, insist okay,

616
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:32.480
so they've done this shit before. Yeah, and she survived

617
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.119
and she's like, yes, Border patrol shot me, she told

618
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:38.119
John Fray. And so then John Fray Carlos goes to

619
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:43.400
speak to Sergeant Angulu from the Nogalist police department and

620
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.440
they told they can't talk about it. So then he

621
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:50.039
leaves and he runs into a chief of the police

622
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.840
chief be Movedness, and he's like, hey, I don't want

623
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:54.679
to talk about any specific incident because I know you

624
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.960
guys can't comment on it, but what is the general

625
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:05.119
protocol involving Border patrol shootings? And so then the Chief

626
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:11.519
Bermudas tells John Frank Carlos that as far as he knows,

627
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.559
and he's been with them for a long time, he's

628
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:17.400
the chief with the police, right as far as he knows,

629
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:23.039
the police has never investigated any Border Patrol shooting incidents,

630
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.639
and that he knew he knew of the existence of

631
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.800
the critical Incident teams because this is a hush hush thing. Yes,

632
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:35.880
Like when I mentioned Jen had looked up there are

633
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.519
policy handbooks, she had meant she had found one mention

634
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:44.199
of critical incident teams in an older version of the

635
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:49.800
policy and not and knew as in this timeframe, and yeah,

636
00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.440
so one mention of them and then nothing else. So

637
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.480
if it was very hush hush, and they're like they

638
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:56.679
just knew that they had something to do with un sol,

639
00:42:56.679 --> 00:43:01.079
they kept looking into it. So then they chief police

640
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:06.159
chief and is confirmed critical incident teams does exist, but

641
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.840
he couldn't comment on the role. So then John Fray

642
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:15.159
called the Border Patrol media person to ask about the

643
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:18.679
existence of critical incident teams and the person's like, oh,

644
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:20.719
I don't know. I don't know anything about that, but

645
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:22.639
send me an email and I'll look into it. So

646
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:29.679
this person literally didn't know this Border Patrol media person

647
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:32.480
and leads on, I guess you could say imediately. He's on,

648
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.440
they didn't know about the existence of critical incident teams.

649
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.760
So they're like, well, send me an email and I'll

650
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:45.880
look into it. And someone sends John Fray in an

651
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:48.840
anonymous text and they're like, Hey, I heard you were

652
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:55.239
asking about critical incident teams. Here's a PowerPoint and it's

653
00:43:55.239 --> 00:44:00.360
a presentation about the critical incident teams. So the Critical

654
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.360
Incident Teams were established in September nineteen eighty seven, and

655
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:08.880
their goal, as it's said in the PowerPoint, is to

656
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.480
do concurrent investigations with local agencies. But it seems like

657
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:17.760
they don't partner concurrently to investigate. They investigate themselves and

658
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:24.400
they don't allow local agencies to investigate for mitigation for civiliability,

659
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.079
prepare administrative report that preserves and protects the integrity of

660
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.559
the Border Patrol, and then they investigate and prepare criminal

661
00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:36.599
cases against suspects for assault on bord Patrol agents. Which

662
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:42.000
is why they referred to Anastasio as a suspect of

663
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:48.519
assault on border patrol agents. So an anonymous former CIT

664
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:55.119
agent actually came forward and he speaks synonymously on the documentary,

665
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:57.960
but he came forward to john Frey Carlos, and he

666
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:01.039
admits that it was a program created to investigate high

667
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:05.159
profile critical incidents, and these incidents are deemed the critical

668
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:09.320
by the chief patrol agent of the district. I guess

669
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:12.039
you could say where the incident happens, but there are

670
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:18.119
also times where the agents themselves could call for CIT

671
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.199
basically and they would contaminate evidence even before CC showed

672
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:24.840
up to cover up. And so the purpose is to

673
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.880
protect against civiliability. And there's been way more cases where

674
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:37.239
they are similar to an Assisio's case, and yeah, who survived.

675
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:41.760
But Jen Budd looked into this. She looked up federal

676
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:46.599
lawsuits in the PACER system to kind of look into

677
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.199
cases that seem similar to Anastasios to then see if

678
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.199
try to find out if CIT was involved in those cases.

679
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:56.840
And it was the same story over and over again

680
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:01.599
that the agents acted in self defense. And so looking

681
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:05.280
into it, this led Jen to believe that anytime there's

682
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.199
been an incident like a shooting or a death at

683
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:13.239
the border, CAT has been involved. Interesting And so then

684
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:17.320
in twenty twenty one, John Frey along with the john

685
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:19.360
Frey Carlos I keep saying to this John Fray, but

686
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:23.880
john Frey Carlos and Jenbud along with the Southern Well

687
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:25.920
she was working with them and in conduction with the

688
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:30.360
Southern Border Communities Coalition, and this is a group organization

689
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.559
that was helping Maria and the family. They released the

690
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:39.559
information they found on CAT to the media and so

691
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:47.559
they found that CAT was interfering in fatal incidents, and

692
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:53.519
they described the CIT as off the books investigative units

693
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.760
or quote, shadow police units. And they found that the

694
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:02.760
CAT would go to a scene, collect evidence that supports

695
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.079
the Border Patrol, leave the evidence, but then destroy any

696
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.599
other evidence to alleviate responsibility and liability for Border Patrol.

697
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.400
And they have no authority to exist, mind you, right,

698
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.960
So then john Frey Carlos also met with Senator Alex

699
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:29.800
Padilla to share this CIIT and information and he's like, yeah,

700
00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:33.119
they have no approval or funding from Congress, like this

701
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:38.159
is a shadow organization within the Border Patrol. And on

702
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.360
November sixteenth, twenty twenty one, there was a congressional oversight

703
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:46.360
to question the depriving of Homeland Security to question them

704
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:50.119
about the existence of CIIT, and so they questioned the

705
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.840
head at the time was something I don't know, it's

706
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:58.880
first thing, but majorcas and two former senior Border Patrol

707
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:03.280
officials agreed to be in viewed about I guess maybe

708
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:07.079
their contact with THET and internal affairs. No, sorry, they

709
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:11.679
were with internal affairs. Oh okay, but yeah, after the

710
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:16.599
congressional oversight hearings, the Biden administration did eventually officially on

711
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:21.119
paper at least terminate CIT. Is there a possibility they

712
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:26.400
exist because they existed before in the shadows? Yeah? Yeah.

713
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:31.679
So in the documentary, two former senior Border Patrol officials

714
00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:38.199
that were internal affairs agents were interviewed and they mentioned

715
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.159
I believe it's I'm not sure, but there was not

716
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:46.119
always an internal affairs in bar Patrol. And so one

717
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:48.760
of them, they're both named James, but one of them

718
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:52.320
is basically like he saying he was taken aback to

719
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:56.360
learn that there was no internal affairs before and he

720
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.920
was taken it back to the agent's response to internal affairs,

721
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.760
and one of them talks about how Border Patrol consider

722
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.199
themselves more like military and paramilitary than law enforcement. And

723
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:12.360
so then he would tell them, hey, law enforcement has

724
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.519
to abide blah blah blah blah blah whatever, like reason

725
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:19.039
with them, like, hey, cooperate with me, you know, and

726
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:21.559
they would be like, you don't understand. You've never worked green.

727
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.320
And this is the thing. It's a in group, it's

728
00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:29.800
a they made this their whole identity. And it's something

729
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.280
we talked about in the Border Patrol series that we

730
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:36.360
did over at Estorias Unown as well. Honestly, like, if

731
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:41.519
you're just now questioning if this organization should even exist,

732
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:44.960
we highly suggest you check out those episodes on our

733
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:48.039
history podcast Estorias Are Known. It goes to the beginning

734
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.119
of Border Patrol and it's like five episodes deep diving

735
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:56.559
into them. But this mentality, one, this brainwashing is so dangerous.

736
00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:59.599
People are talking about right now talking about how thuggish

737
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.119
the Sly are, but it's like it's not. It's always

738
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.800
been like this, This this mentality mentality has been ongoing.

739
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:11.119
I mean like literally in that series that most of

740
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:15.719
the research came from doctor Kelly Litel and none. This

741
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:21.280
book Migra, a US History on a history and US

742
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:26.280
Border Patrol, But even before a decade of their existence,

743
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.559
there was a call for a reform because of the

744
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:34.119
extreme violence that Border Patrol agency perpetrated mm hmm. And

745
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:38.920
that was within the first ten years of the Border Patrol, yep.

746
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:43.440
And there was a reform where supposedly they got rid

747
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.559
of all the old timers that had this you know,

748
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:48.519
violent mindset, but in reality, they kept a lot of

749
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:53.000
them on as trainers, and this violent mindset never went away.

750
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:57.119
It's embedded in the legacy of Border Patrol and now ICE,

751
00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.840
because ICE is a division of that you know yep.

752
00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:07.360
So one of the internal affairs agents said that they

753
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:11.480
were briefed on Anascio's case and that agent confirmed that

754
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.960
anasthetia was on his back when he was tasered, and

755
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:19.599
he confirmed that the critical incident team was reporting directly

756
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:26.320
to the porpitual chief in San Diego, and one of

757
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:30.159
the internal affairs agents was directed to submit a false

758
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:35.360
report on the incident. And they also said that the

759
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:41.159
CIIT illegally obtained the autopsy report before anyone else had

760
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:46.440
access to it, and then they used that autopsy to

761
00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:49.679
construct their own story. So they read about the math

762
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.519
and they said, Okay, he was on meth but in reality,

763
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:56.119
but they're so stupid and they didn't recognize that that

764
00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:58.719
was a medication he was given at the hospital, right.

765
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:02.679
It was the medication peneleprine. Yeah, and this often causes

766
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:05.400
a false positive for a meth and so they just

767
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.440
took that and around with it to construct their story

768
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.159
because they had to make something up right to not

769
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.199
seem culpable. And so I thought this was important for

770
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.800
them to come out and say the truth because every

771
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:18.199
other agent that was interviewed about this in the documentary,

772
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:22.920
including the current chief, they're like, oh, well he was

773
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:26.679
excuses right, Oh he was resisting. Oh I don't know

774
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:28.119
too much about it, but I just know he was

775
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:31.039
resisting like things like that. And then there are like, no,

776
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:34.239
I was brief on this and he was on his

777
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:38.440
back when he was taard and c AT directed me

778
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:43.880
to submit a Polish reports. So yeah, yes, thank you

779
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:49.880
for that rundown. And you know, even after all this,

780
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:53.239
like not being told what was going on after the

781
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:57.000
case was closed by DOJ and Assasi's family did not

782
00:52:57.079 --> 00:53:00.400
give up. When the criminal investigation went nowhere, they pursued

783
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:05.119
a civil lawsuit, which they won February twenty seventeen. And

784
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:09.159
this does not at all mean that justice was served.

785
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:13.039
It was pursued because the criminal case was closed, and

786
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.840
it was in the civil lawsuit that the family finally

787
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:18.519
learned some of the names of some of the officers involved,

788
00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:22.599
not even not all of them at all. There had

789
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:25.440
been a protective order in place to withhold their names

790
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:29.320
because they're like they're always protected. Hence why they're walking

791
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.760
around in masks right now. In between the criminal investigation

792
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.760
and the civil lawsuit taking place, the family also filed

793
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:41.599
a petition with the Inter American Commission on Human Rights,

794
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:46.000
or the IACCHR, and they had the help of Alliance

795
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:49.440
San Diego and international law experts from UC Berkeley like

796
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:56.039
Roxanna Alfhalls. And the IACCHR is the only court currently

797
00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:58.760
in which you can sue the United States for human

798
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.039
rights abuses. They do not have the authority to put

799
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:05.039
anyone in prison, but they do hold moral and political

800
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:09.039
sway and can encourage the creation of hard law protections.

801
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:12.199
The IACCHR is what is considered a soft law and

802
00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:16.639
change in policies and stuff like that. Yeah, and so on.

803
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:21.639
May tenth, twenty seventeen, the IACHR announced that it would

804
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:26.280
be moving forward with the case, and it gave the

805
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:29.400
US government a chance to respond to the allegations of

806
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:34.719
extra judicial killing, torture, and obstruction of justice. And the

807
00:54:34.719 --> 00:54:39.159
Trump administration did respond, arguing that the IACHR did not

808
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:42.639
have jurisdiction to hear the case. But they did, and

809
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:46.000
they did. They did take the case, and they had

810
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:50.960
jurisdician to do so, and so in twenty nineteen August

811
00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:56.719
twenty nineteen, they spoke with Maria Burga and others and

812
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:00.079
this was the trial. During this she testified, quote, I

813
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:02.880
still hear the cries of my husband calling for help.

814
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:06.679
The border agents who killed him must have thought he

815
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:09.639
didn't have a family or a community. They were wrong.

816
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.599
Here we are and we will fight for justice for

817
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:16.159
Anastasio and all other victims of border agents until the

818
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:20.519
system changes end quote. And in a landmark ruling on

819
00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:27.079
April twenty eighth, twenty twenty, almost a decade after his killing. Yeah,

820
00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:30.400
almost a decade, yes, sorry, I can't do math. Almost

821
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:34.400
a decade after his killing, the IACHR ruled in favor

822
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:38.119
of Anastasio's family. They ruled that the US had violated

823
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:42.679
the rights to life, health, justice, personal integrity, and humane

824
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.719
treatment during deprivation of freedom. They also stated that Anastasio

825
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:52.559
was subjected to torture, which he was The commission recommended

826
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:56.559
that the US reopen the DOJ investigation, and this has

827
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:00.840
yet to happen. But this was a meaningful not only

828
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:04.199
for Anastasio's family, but also for the many who have

829
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:06.880
been abused and killed at the hands of both Border

830
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:10.440
Patrol and ICE, hundreds hundreds of people. In documentary they

831
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:13.320
mentioned that after Anastasio's and I don't know how how

832
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:18.920
far how recent they counted, but after Anthatia's death, at

833
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.119
least two hundred people have died at the hands of

834
00:56:21.159 --> 00:56:24.599
Board Patrol. Oh yeah, we've shared similar statistics in our

835
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.400
episode two fifteen, and like one is one too many,

836
00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:33.599
but here we are at two hundred plus. The current

837
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:38.920
Commissioner of the US Customs and Border Patrol is implicated

838
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:42.960
in the killing of Anastasio. He was the chief, He

839
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.960
was the one in charge of the critical incident. He was,

840
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:51.519
say theory, the critical Incident team that interfered with the investigation.

841
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:55.800
Under his direction, they did the following, some of which

842
00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:58.239
we have already mentioned, but they took control of the

843
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:02.559
incident scene and collected evidence now SDPD. They erased witness

844
00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:06.119
cell phone video and dispersed witnesses. They requested that a

845
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:10.719
hospital doctor tests an Assassia for drugs. They unlawfully used

846
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:15.199
in the administrative subpoena to acquire those medical records. They

847
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:19.800
provided police investigators the wrong video footage from surveillance cameras.

848
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:23.480
They allowed surveillance footage of the incidents to be taped over.

849
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:27.639
They participated in all of the witness interviews conducted by police.

850
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:31.119
They intervened in the autopsy and took their own photos.

851
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:35.480
They altered the Border Patrol arrests record before giving it

852
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:39.599
to the police. They wrote their own investigative report used

853
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:44.000
to mitigate the liability of agents. And that is the

854
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.760
person currently in charge of patrol, the person who was

855
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:51.039
in charge of that investigation by C. T. Scott something.

856
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:56.559
You wrote his name down, Rodney Scott. Rodney Scott. This

857
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:59.360
is the person currently in charge of Border Patrol. He

858
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:03.840
is the commision of the Customs and customs and border whatever.

859
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:08.159
He's the commissioner. Yeah. And when he was questioned about Anastasio,

860
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.960
was it for the documentary, how arrogant that he still

861
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:15.559
appeared in the documentary instead of just not commenting or

862
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:20.239
denying to appear. Anyway, He was questioned about Anastasio's case

863
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:24.119
for the HBO documentary and he said the following about

864
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:28.239
Anastasio quote, it was an illegal alien. He right, he

865
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:31.079
didn't say it, did he? However, it's typed up, is

866
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:35.079
how he said. That's insane. Quote. I did they ask

867
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:38.440
him about the incident, like, have you heard of the

868
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:41.800
case case? Okay, yeah, that would make more sense. Okay,

869
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.320
it was an illegal alien that Border Patrol agents arrested.

870
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:47.840
They were sending him back south. He kind of flipped out,

871
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:51.800
multiple agents responded, and ultimately he ended up he ended

872
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:57.280
up passing away, just like that of his own volition. Yeah,

873
00:58:57.440 --> 00:58:59.800
he passed away. It was his fault he passed away. Actually,

874
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:03.719
he ended up passing away, you know, just like anviently. Yeah.

875
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:09.360
Plunos and Rodney Scott denied ci T was on the

876
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:13.039
scene and denied there was a cover up at all.

877
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:16.639
And like we said earlier, Congress did announce a formal

878
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:19.800
investigation into CIT in twenty twenty two, but in May

879
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.599
of that year. But in May of that year, by

880
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.719
the announce that they would eliminate cit And like we

881
00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:30.320
said earlier, who knows if this actually happened like it

882
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:33.159
made have happened on paper, But they could very well

883
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:36.719
still be existing in the shadows, just like they had

884
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:39.960
been four years before all of this came to light.

885
00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:43.159
And that wouldn't be the most surprising thing, just thinking about,

886
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.159
like say, the School of Americas which was quote unquote

887
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:49.239
officially closed but then reopened under a different name Windzek,

888
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:53.280
So yeah, that wouldn't be that shocking. And this is

889
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:58.119
the exact type of investigative unit that would have responded

890
00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:01.760
to what happened today. Yeah, m hm. And part of

891
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.599
me also wonders like if di Biden administration chose to

892
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:09.079
eliminate it so that there would be no vestigation. No, really,

893
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:14.000
and investigation is warranted. Yes, how many deaths have they

894
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:20.639
covered up? Yeah, we don't know because there's no investigation. Yeah,

895
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:25.719
and that was the case of Anastasio Ernandez Drojas, one

896
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:41.800
that we should all be familiar with, especially right now. Yeah, Yeah,

897
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:48.119
that was heavy for sure. It was it was go

898
01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:50.519
get some ice cream or something or I don't know,

899
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:54.199
sign petitions and protests and then go get ice cream

900
01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:59.840
something yeah, but yeah, we first we are sorry for

901
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:03.239
or how whatever this brought up for you, it brought

902
01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:05.960
up the same for us. But again, it's a very

903
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.519
important case and it's hard to talk about, it's hard

904
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:13.159
to read about, it's hard to learn about, but it

905
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:19.840
deserves to be told. And even the family themselves are like,

906
01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:24.800
the settlement was not justice. Justice will be first of all,

907
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:28.760
this should never happen, right, But justice to the family,

908
01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.119
as they have said, would be for this to never

909
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:34.880
happen again, and for things like this to never happen again.

910
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:39.559
We have to talk about the injustice and the atrocities

911
01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:42.760
that have already been committed by bor patrol and ice

912
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:48.000
because people don't know that they have always been like this, right,

913
01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:56.360
Today's murder by ice agents is nothing new, right, And

914
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:59.239
if people aren't surprised, then they should look into the

915
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:03.119
history of borbae Ie because they have always acted as

916
01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:08.960
menaces to society. They have murder and raped women and

917
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:13.239
children and men, and yeah, they have acted with impetuity.

918
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:18.519
They have never been convicted of a murder despite killing

919
01:02:18.679 --> 01:02:23.400
hundreds of people. Yep. And so this is just a call, right,

920
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:33.880
like these type of murderers organizations shouldn't exist exactly. And

921
01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:37.519
that is where we will leave you with those words,

922
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:42.400
and we'll be back next week with a different topic.

923
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:49.559
As always, Goodbye as Book tells Us. Hosted by Christina

924
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:53.159
and Carmen, Produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina

925
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:56.039
Carmen and with the help of Don Shout out with Don.

926
01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:58.519
If you're enjoying the podcast considerably, going to say five

927
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:00.880
star review, we would really appreciate. If you don't want

928
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:03.039
to the professional review, just don't leave a review, but

929
01:03:03.039 --> 01:03:05.360
don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.

930
01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:08.119
You can reach out to the podcast at Spookytoes at

931
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:09.920
gmail dot com. You can go to our website at

932
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:13.239
pookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If

933
01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.280
you want to support the podcast, you can join our

934
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:19.559
Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight

935
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:22.840
dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I

936
01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.599
got new ones and these ones are huge. And if

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01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:27.800
you want to support but you can or don't want

938
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.119
to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can also

939
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:33.320
get some merch you can find sure says say a

940
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.440
Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie I love

941
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:40.800
the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a No Mamus shirt,

942
01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:44.119
which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options,

943
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.280
crap tops, sweaters, it's almost wetter weather. We're nearing a

944
01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:50.599
Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them.

945
01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:52.480
If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too.

946
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:55.239
You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's

947
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:56.800
the best support that you can give us. Like I

948
01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:59.519
always say in our ad break and yeah, I feel

949
01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:04.480
like history. You can follow Estoria's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts,

950
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:06.920
and you can find as Spooky Tells on all of

951
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:10.000
our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in

952
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:13.760
the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank

953
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:19.119
you so much. Stay a Spooky